HELP! Old Cham w/ issues

L

lindawinder242

New Member
HELLO! My veiled cham, Jerry, is struggling. His set up & lighting is perfect and at the correct temp. My guess is he is between 5 and 6 years old (I have had him for 3, I got him from Petsmart when he was full grown). Here is a little about his history: he spend a long time (workers told me at least 1 year) at the store. The basking spot temp was at 85 degrees. The UVB lights definitely dont get replaced at the 6 month mark. He never got a multi- vitamin and EVERY day was given calcium with D3. his cage was about 6x12in with dirt floor. His cask was crooked when I got him. When I got him I did not know much about chams and the workers told me they were simple. I fell in love with him because he was very friendly (Still is, loves to be on me). So going into it, and for about the first year I had him, things were settup wrong. And for the next 2 years he got calcium with d3 every day. No multi vitamin, no calcium without d3. However upon extensive research I have since moved him into the perfect settup and he now receives all the right vitamins/ calcium. He use to grab his legs, which I know is a sign of MBD. since fixing his settup he barely ever does that. However now his tongue is no longer sticky. He cant shoot it out at all, I must hand feed him. He cant even grab a cricket out of my fingers thats not moving. The only thing his tongue seems to be able to stick to are wax worms. I know they are not healthy and I use to never give them to him. Now I am giving him about 6 a day and he seems much more active. So my question is- how bad are they? Will feeding him waxworms cause more health problems than being malnourished? *he struggles to eat meal worms as well and I cant get anything other than crickets, meal worms, and wax worms where I live*

PLEASE HELP!!!
 
lindawinder242 said:
HELLO! My veiled cham, Jerry, is struggling. His set up & lighting is perfect and at the correct temp. My guess is he is between 5 and 6 years old (I have had him for 3, I got him from Petsmart when he was full grown). Here is a little about his history: he spend a long time (workers told me at least 1 year) at the store. The basking spot temp was at 85 degrees. The UVB lights definitely dont get replaced at the 6 month mark. He never got a multi- vitamin and EVERY day was given calcium with D3. his cage was about 6x12in with dirt floor. His cask was crooked when I got him. When I got him I did not know much about chams and the workers told me they were simple. I fell in love with him because he was very friendly (Still is, loves to be on me). So going into it, and for about the first year I had him, things were settup wrong. And for the next 2 years he got calcium with d3 every day. No multi vitamin, no calcium without d3. However upon extensive research I have since moved him into the perfect settup and he now receives all the right vitamins/ calcium. He use to grab his legs, which I know is a sign of MBD. since fixing his settup he barely ever does that. However now his tongue is no longer sticky. He cant shoot it out at all, I must hand feed him. He cant even grab a cricket out of my fingers thats not moving. The only thing his tongue seems to be able to stick to are wax worms. I know they are not healthy and I use to never give them to him. Now I am giving him about 6 a day and he seems much more active. So my question is- how bad are they? Will feeding him waxworms cause more health problems than being malnourished? *he struggles to eat meal worms as well and I cant get anything other than crickets, meal worms, and wax worms where I live*

PLEASE HELP!!!
Click to expand...

He's quite a survivor! Living to this age after all his past care.

Just some ideas: I am wondering if there is something you could put on the feeders to help them stick? Something edible and possibly sweet like ground bee pollen? If there is too much calcium dust on them it might make them more slippery too. Also, one sign of low level dehydration is a tongue that isn't sticky (the glands don't produce as much mucous). Maybe as he's aging its a bit harder for him to stay hydrated. How does he drink now?

Waxworms are fatty and sweet so chams often "decide" they are all they want to eat. Part of this could be due to that. Other soft bodied feeders as suggested might help.
 
Can you post a few photos of him, it might be able to show us if he does have advanced MBD or not... If it's not too advanced it's pretty easy to slow it's progress, and possibly even stop. I would save up for a vet visit, and take him in. If you find a good reptile vet the check ups aren't that much, my reptile check ups are around 70 dollars for a first time visit and cost around 50 afterward. I would suggest talking to a vet about getting a possible liquid calcium supplement and maybe a few vitamin shots? He might have a vitamin deficiency. But a lot of the time an over abundance of vitamin D3 and calcium can present itself like a lack of it. I wouldn't be surprised is he has a vitamin deficiency though... what are you gutloading/feeding feeders with?

Just to continue on what Carlton said about dehydration, are you misting for two minutes or more at a time? Do you have a dripper going? I agree he could have some hydration issues, I've noticed with my boy when he got dehydrated he used to have issues with his tongue sticking.
 
He has never drunk off of leaves or his surrounding so I give him water from a syringe every other day. So he gets about 10ml of water a week. His poops are very hydrated as well. He has a hard time eating crickets even when there is no dust on them :( He just touches it with his tongue and immediately closes his mouth. I have been adding calcium without d3 to his water before giving it to him, and give him a multi vitamin once a week/ every other week or so. Here are a couple photos of him! *he very rarely gets puffy but I woke him up so that is why he was so angry here* IMG_7428.jpg

IMG_9224 copy.jpg

IMG_2401.jpg
 
lindawinder242 said:
He has never drunk off of leaves or his surrounding so I give him water from a syringe every other day. So he gets about 10ml of water a week. His poops are very hydrated as well. He has a hard time eating crickets even when there is no dust on them :( He just touches it with his tongue and immediately closes his mouth. I have been adding calcium without d3 to his water before giving it to him, and give him a multi vitamin once a week/ every other week or so. Here are a couple photos of him! *he very rarely gets puffy but I woke him up so that is why he was so angry here* View attachment 112521

View attachment 112522

View attachment 112523
Click to expand...

IMHO, your comment about "just touches them with his tongue and closes his mouth" sounds a bit more like a picky eater to me. Can't blame him really, and he deserves a little coddling, but he does need the nutrition from other feeders regardless. BTW, for all he's been through he looks great! Nice straight legs, alert and pretty strong grip! You've done a good job with him.
 
He gets really into the crickets and mealworms, but they dont stick to his tongue so he cant get them in his mouth. Then he gets really frustrated (and maybe a bit embarrassed) after a few tries and gives up. I would leave 5 or 6 free roaming in his cage and he would spend hours trying to get them but would only be successful at MAYBE getting 1 a day. Do you know of any worms that have the same texture? in hopes that they will stick better, as well as being healthier.
 
Another side note is that he has not actually shot out his tongue more than an inch or 2 in a few months. Now he wont stick it out more than 1 cm and tries to more so just eat things like a slow beardie
 
I don't see any MBD in fact he looks real good for his age. I had a female who got this way in her older age, and I just held the cricket or whatever I was feeding her at the time right up to her mouth. She would take it from my fingers as I helped her keep it in her mouth while she chewed it down being careful not to accidently get nipped in the process. Do you think he would be up for this?
 
If you could order feeders online, I would suggest silkworms or hornworms. Their skin is soft and squishy, like wax worms, slow moving enough that he could catch them just using an open mouth, and have better nutritional qualities than waxies. Get a few into him and if his tongue issue is related to hydration, they should help too because of a higher moisture content.
 
lindawinder242 said:
HELLO! My veiled cham, Jerry, is struggling. His set up & lighting is perfect and at the correct temp. My guess is he is between 5 and 6 years old (I have had him for 3, I got him from Petsmart when he was full grown). Here is a little about his history: he spend a long time (workers told me at least 1 year) at the store. The basking spot temp was at 85 degrees. The UVB lights definitely dont get replaced at the 6 month mark. He never got a multi- vitamin and EVERY day was given calcium with D3. his cage was about 6x12in with dirt floor. His cask was crooked when I got him. When I got him I did not know much about chams and the workers told me they were simple. I fell in love with him because he was very friendly (Still is, loves to be on me). So going into it, and for about the first year I had him, things were settup wrong. And for the next 2 years he got calcium with d3 every day. No multi vitamin, no calcium without d3. However upon extensive research I have since moved him into the perfect settup and he now receives all the right vitamins/ calcium. He use to grab his legs, which I know is a sign of MBD. since fixing his settup he barely ever does that. However now his tongue is no longer sticky. He cant shoot it out at all, I must hand feed him. He cant even grab a cricket out of my fingers thats not moving. The only thing his tongue seems to be able to stick to are wax worms. I know they are not healthy and I use to never give them to him. Now I am giving him about 6 a day and he seems much more active. So my question is- how bad are they? Will feeding him waxworms cause more health problems than being malnourished? *he struggles to eat meal worms as well and I cant get anything other than crickets, meal worms, and wax worms where I live*

PLEASE HELP!!!
Click to expand...
Have you tried black soldier fly larvae? They have little hair all over their bodies, when they are completely dry, they should stick to his tongue! They are also about the same size as the wax worms but they are amazingly healthy! Give them a try and let us know!
 
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