Help is this gout

[Frog]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 2 years almost 3, been in my care since he was 3 months.
• Handling - I handle him often because he comes up to me when I enter the room. He likes to come out and is extremely friendly. I raised him by hand feeding as a baby and slowly moved him to a wall feeder.
• Feeding - I have been feeding him dubia roaches, crickets, and silk worms. I usually feed bugs lettuce but I have been trying to incorporate other plants. I have never used anything like dog or cat food. I feed him every other day and I fed him every day when he was little.
• Supplements - I use calcium without D3 almost every feed and calcium with D3 once a month
• Watering - I have a misting system that sprays multiple times a day from anywhere between 45 to 15 second. I don’t normally see him drink but he has tried to catch falling water droplets like bugs.
• Fecal Description - I have not seen issues with his poop They have always been wet with a good amount of brown and white and no discoloration. Never had parasites
• History - He has always been skinny (even as a baby) despite me feeding him. I am working very hard on getting him to a better weight.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Has a combo cage with glass on three sides and a screen on the door. We normally only have two glass sides; however we covered on to keep in moisture during the winter. The cage is 24’ x 24’ x 48’
• Lighting - I do not know brands but he has a UV light and a heat lamp in one corner
• Temperature - Floor temp is around 70 F while the heat lamp creates a corner of about 90-80 F. The heat lamp and UV turn off during the night.
• Humidity - is usually around 40%-60% however it is winter which makes it harder to keep the humidity up.
• Plants - I have a bromeliad, a monstera obliqua, and two golden pothos that expand throughout the cage.
• Placement - The cage is located in my bedroom in the upstairs of our house I do turn my fan on at night but I cover the cage door with a blanket to keep in humidity and warmth. The top of the cage is about 60 inches above the floor.
• New York

One day I caught my chameleon drinking water from a pool on the bottom of his cage that he literally just pooped in. So we changed his cage set up so more water would collect towards the top. I then noticed a strange bump on my chameleon’s right front arm and mentioned it to my dad. It was pretty small and it not seem to bother his walking so I decided to just keep an eye on it. About two days later I came home to find him sleeping while dangling his front left arm and it was swollen. He wouldn’t use it to walk. I was worried it was gout so we took him to the vet few days later. The vet took some X-rays and some fluid from the right arm bump and gave me some antibiotics to give him while we waited for the results. The X-rays looked good and the fluid didn’t show an infection; however, the vet did not see any uric acid crystals. We decided not to take blood because of the risks. By the time we got these results the swelling in his left leg had gone down and the bump on the right leg hadn’t changed. He still was not moving about the cage like he normally would but his appetite was still good. I thought that maybe he had just injured his leg and that the bump was just some random occurrence. But yesterday I notice he was sleep with holding on with his back left leg. He has continued to hold it weird all day. I do not know what to do. I took him out but the leg doesn‘t look swollen and he was still using it ok. We talked to the vet about starting him on gout medication just in case but I am confused how it could be gout if his poop always looked healthy. Does anyone know what this could be? Any advice?

Here are pictures of him dangling his leg, him hold his leg up when he wouldn’t use it to walk, and the leg with the bump.​

 

[Lindasjackson]

Chameleon Info:​

• Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 2 years almost 3, been in my care since he was 3 months.
• Handling - I handle him often because he comes up to me when I enter the room. He likes to come out and is extremely friendly. I raised him by hand feeding as a baby and slowly moved him to a wall feeder.
• Feeding - I have been feeding him dubia roaches, crickets, and silk worms. I usually feed bugs lettuce but I have been trying to incorporate other plants. I have never used anything like dog or cat food. I feed him every other day and I fed him every day when he was little.
• Supplements - I use calcium without D3 almost every feed and calcium with D3 once a month
• Watering - I have a misting system that sprays multiple times a day from anywhere between 45 to 15 second. I don’t normally see him drink but he has tried to catch falling water droplets like bugs.
• Fecal Description - I have not seen issues with his poop They have always been wet with a good amount of brown and white and no discoloration. Never had parasites
• History - He has always been skinny (even as a baby) despite me feeding him. I am working very hard on getting him to a better weight.

Cage Info:​

• Cage Type - Has a combo cage with glass on three sides and a screen on the door. We normally only have two glass sides; however we covered on to keep in moisture during the winter. The cage is 24’ x 24’ x 48’
• Lighting - I do not know brands but he has a UV light and a heat lamp in one corner
• Temperature - Floor temp is around 70 F while the heat lamp creates a corner of about 90-80 F. The heat lamp and UV turn off during the night.
• Humidity - is usually around 40%-60% however it is winter which makes it harder to keep the humidity up.
• Plants - I have a bromeliad, a monstera obliqua, and two golden pothos that expand throughout the cage.
• Placement - The cage is located in my bedroom in the upstairs of our house I do turn my fan on at night but I cover the cage door with a blanket to keep in humidity and warmth. The top of the cage is about 60 inches above the floor.
• New York

One day I caught my chameleon drinking water from a pool on the bottom of his cage that he literally just pooped in. So we changed his cage set up so more water would collect towards the top. I then noticed a strange bump on my chameleon’s right front arm and mentioned it to my dad. It was pretty small and it not seem to bother his walking so I decided to just keep an eye on it. About two days later I came home to find him sleeping while dangling his front left arm and it was swollen. He wouldn’t use it to walk. I was worried it was gout so we took him to the vet few days later. The vet took some X-rays and some fluid from the right arm bump and gave me some antibiotics to give him while we waited for the results. The X-rays looked good and the fluid didn’t show an infection; however, the vet did not see any uric acid crystals. We decided not to take blood because of the risks. By the time we got these results the swelling in his left leg had gone down and the bump on the right leg hadn’t changed. He still was not moving about the cage like he normally would but his appetite was still good. I thought that maybe he had just injured his leg and that the bump was just some random occurrence. But yesterday I notice he was sleep with holding on with his back left leg. He has continued to hold it weird all day. I do not know what to do. I took him out but the leg doesn‘t look swollen and he was still using it ok. We talked to the vet about starting him on gout medication just in case but I am confused how it could be gout if his poop always looked healthy. Does anyone know what this could be? Any advice?​

​

Here are pictures of him dangling his leg, him hold his leg up when he wouldn’t use it to walk, and the leg with the bump.​

I’m going to tag some people in to help.
@MissSkittles @Beman @kinyonga

 

[Lindasjackson]

Welcome to the forum by the way. We have some really awesome helpful people.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Give me a bit of time and I’ll go thru your husbandry and see if I can help. While waiting, start looking in your area for a good vet experienced with chameleons as 9/10, that will be your best action.

 

[MissSkittles]

• Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 2 years almost 3, been in my care since he was 3 months.
• Handling - I handle him often because he comes up to me when I enter the room. He likes to come out and is extremely friendly. I raised him by hand feeding as a baby and slowly moved him to a wall feeder.
• Feeding - I have been feeding him dubia roaches, crickets, and silk worms. I usually feed bugs lettuce but I have been trying to incorporate other plants. I have never used anything like dog or cat food. I feed him every other day and I fed him every day when he was little. You definitely need to improve your gutloading. Attaching graphic below. We don’t just want to keep the feeders alive, but to make them healthy and more nutritious for our animals.
• Supplements - I use calcium without D3 almost every feed and calcium with D3 once a month What about a multivitamin? Both a multivitamin and calcium with D3 should be given one feeding, every other week (alternating between them).
• Watering - I have a misting system that sprays multiple times a day from anywhere between 45 to 15 second. I don’t normally see him drink but he has tried to catch falling water droplets like bugs. It’s better to mist for at least 2 minutes, 2-3 times a day...just before lights on and off and at mid day is optional, or you could use a dripper for about 20 minutes instead.
• Fecal Description - I have not seen issues with his poop They have always been wet with a good amount of brown and white and no discoloration. Never had parasites Has he been tested recently? May be the reason for being skinny.
• History - He has always been skinny (even as a baby) despite me feeding him. I am working very hard on getting him to a better weight.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Has a combo cage with glass on three sides and a screen on the door. We normally only have two glass sides; however we covered on to keep in moisture during the winter. The cage is 24’ x 24’ x 48’
• Lighting - I do not know brands but he has a UV light and a heat lamp in one corner Very important! Is the uvb a long tube or a screw in bulb? The screw in bulbs can’t provide adequate uvb levels any farther than 2-3” directly below them. The standard is a linear T5HO fixture with either Arcadia 6% or ReptiSun 5.0 uvb bulb. This provides the ideal UV index of around 3.0 at a distance of 8-9” and nice gradients.
• Temperature - Floor temp is around 70 F while the heat lamp creates a corner of about 90-80 F. The heat lamp and UV turn off during the night. 90 is a bit high. I keep my boys around 82-84.
• Humidity - is usually around 40%-60% however it is winter which makes it harder to keep the humidity up. Very good
• Plants - I have a bromeliad, a monstera obliqua, and two golden pothos that expand throughout the cage. Good!
• Placement - The cage is located in my bedroom in the upstairs of our house I do turn my fan on at night but I cover the cage door with a blanket to keep in humidity and warmth. The top of the cage is about 60 inches above the floor.
• New York

One day I caught my chameleon drinking water from a pool on the bottom of his cage that he literally just pooped in. You should work on a good drainage system to prevent pools of water. Adding more plants on the bottom may help too. So we changed his cage set up so more water would collect towards the top. I then noticed a strange bump on my chameleon’s right front arm and mentioned it to my dad. It was pretty small and it not seem to bother his walking so I decided to just keep an eye on it. About two days later I came home to find him sleeping while dangling his front left arm and it was swollen. He wouldn’t use it to walk. I was worried it was gout so we took him to the vet few days later. The vet took some X-rays and some fluid from the right arm bump and gave me some antibiotics to give him while we waited for the results. The X-rays looked good and the fluid didn’t show an infection; however, the vet did not see any uric acid crystals. We decided not to take blood because of the risks. By the time we got these results the swelling in his left leg had gone down and the bump on the right leg hadn’t changed. He still was not moving about the cage like he normally would but his appetite was still good. I thought that maybe he had just injured his leg and that the bump was just some random occurrence. But yesterday I notice he was sleep with holding on with his back left leg. He has continued to hold it weird all day. I do not know what to do. I took him out but the leg doesn‘t look swollen and he was still using it ok. We talked to the vet about starting him on gout medication just in case but I am confused how it could be gout if his poop always looked healthy. Gout really has nothing to do with the poop or really anything that we can see. It’s a build up of uric acid crystals in the blood which then are deposited in bone joints. Usually the crystals are seen on X ray and also blood work will show if gout. Regarding infection, I would definitely think that would show from the aspiration that your vet did. However, if it is infection, it would need to be cleaned out. Chameleon pus is thick like cottage cheese and doesn’t go away on it’s own. Does anyone know what this could be? Any advice? I’m afraid I’m a bit out of my range here, so am needing to summon @kinyonga for her expertise and experience.

Here are pictures of him dangling his leg, him hold his leg up when he wouldn’t use it to walk, and the leg with the bump.​

 

[Beman]

@MissSkittles will have you covered on husbandry.

Yes, it looks like gout to me. This can happen with chams that do not get enough hydration. Your misting sessions are very short. I would recommend putting a dripper on the cage. Something as simple as a solo plastic cup with a few tiny pin holes in the bottom set on the screen top and then add ice cubes for a slow drip into the cage onto the plants below. See if the swelling subsides...Pseudogout does this it will subside.



If it does not subside within a few days you will need a reptile vet... Gout is very painful for them. They would need to run blood work and look at his Uric Acid levels. Then base treatment with meds on that.

 

[Kaizen]

Chameleon Info:​

• Your Chameleon - Panther chameleon, male, 2 years almost 3, been in my care since he was 3 months.
• Handling - I handle him often because he comes up to me when I enter the room. He likes to come out and is extremely friendly. I raised him by hand feeding as a baby and slowly moved him to a wall feeder.
• Feeding - I have been feeding him dubia roaches, crickets, and silk worms. I usually feed bugs lettuce but I have been trying to incorporate other plants. I have never used anything like dog or cat food. I feed him every other day and I fed him every day when he was little.
• Supplements - I use calcium without D3 almost every feed and calcium with D3 once a month
• Watering - I have a misting system that sprays multiple times a day from anywhere between 45 to 15 second. I don’t normally see him drink but he has tried to catch falling water droplets like bugs.
• Fecal Description - I have not seen issues with his poop They have always been wet with a good amount of brown and white and no discoloration. Never had parasites
• History - He has always been skinny (even as a baby) despite me feeding him. I am working very hard on getting him to a better weight.

Cage Info:​

• Cage Type - Has a combo cage with glass on three sides and a screen on the door. We normally only have two glass sides; however we covered on to keep in moisture during the winter. The cage is 24’ x 24’ x 48’
• Lighting - I do not know brands but he has a UV light and a heat lamp in one corner
• Temperature - Floor temp is around 70 F while the heat lamp creates a corner of about 90-80 F. The heat lamp and UV turn off during the night.
• Humidity - is usually around 40%-60% however it is winter which makes it harder to keep the humidity up.
• Plants - I have a bromeliad, a monstera obliqua, and two golden pothos that expand throughout the cage.
• Placement - The cage is located in my bedroom in the upstairs of our house I do turn my fan on at night but I cover the cage door with a blanket to keep in humidity and warmth. The top of the cage is about 60 inches above the floor.
• New York

One day I caught my chameleon drinking water from a pool on the bottom of his cage that he literally just pooped in. So we changed his cage set up so more water would collect towards the top. I then noticed a strange bump on my chameleon’s right front arm and mentioned it to my dad. It was pretty small and it not seem to bother his walking so I decided to just keep an eye on it. About two days later I came home to find him sleeping while dangling his front left arm and it was swollen. He wouldn’t use it to walk. I was worried it was gout so we took him to the vet few days later. The vet took some X-rays and some fluid from the right arm bump and gave me some antibiotics to give him while we waited for the results. The X-rays looked good and the fluid didn’t show an infection; however, the vet did not see any uric acid crystals. We decided not to take blood because of the risks. By the time we got these results the swelling in his left leg had gone down and the bump on the right leg hadn’t changed. He still was not moving about the cage like he normally would but his appetite was still good. I thought that maybe he had just injured his leg and that the bump was just some random occurrence. But yesterday I notice he was sleep with holding on with his back left leg. He has continued to hold it weird all day. I do not know what to do. I took him out but the leg doesn‘t look swollen and he was still using it ok. We talked to the vet about starting him on gout medication just in case but I am confused how it could be gout if his poop always looked healthy. Does anyone know what this could be? Any advice?​

​

Here are pictures of him dangling his leg, him hold his leg up when he wouldn’t use it to walk, and the leg with the bump.​

If he’s not using it a lot, dangling it etc., then regardless of whether it’s gout or swelling from an injury, you need a vet visit. So book the appointment, and if it clears up in the meantime cancel the appointment…or don’t and use the opportunity to cultivate your relationship with your vet. And make sure your hydration is on point. Send a poop pic for us.

 

[kinyonga]

If it is gout, you might like to read this...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/found-an-interesting-q-a-on-roaches-uric-acid.164946/

 

[Frog]

Hi I am so sorry I thought I hit the post button but I apparently did not! So I put what I had meant to post in bold and a very small update I will also send a picture of some fecal matter.

Thank you guys so much for all your fast responses! This community is amazing! I made a few mistakes on the forum (sorry). I am only 16 and my dad wasn't there to help me with the technical components. Here are the corrections.

Lighting - We have a T5 screw in that is paired with a heat bulb that hit the chameleon at about 2-3 inches and a T8 tube. Both of the bulbs are relatively new.

Misting - I really messed up the lengths of the misting. Here are the exact times times and lengths of the sprays.
(9:13 1min 13sec) (10:00 44sec) (12:00 2min 22sec) (2:00 45sec) (4:00 2min 8sec) (6:00 1min 41sec). I had tried to use a home made dripper but it did not work. I saw the post about using ice cubes so I will try that. We have already completely redone his cage to allow better filtering of fecal matter and collect increase the collection of water

Supplements - The vet said I should increase his calcium intake (a radiologist said his bones looked a little less dense) I am currently in the prosses of changing my supplement schedule. I used to do calcium without D3 at least three feeds a week, calcium with D3 one feed every two weeks and Multivitamin once a month; however I saw what was written about supplements above and I am going to make adjustments.

My Chameleon has been doing ok. His back foot never progressed and he was doing well for awhile but recently both front feet have developed bumps and he beg to hold them up. I have been in constant contact with my vet throughout this ordeal and we are going to receive gout medicine soon to see whether it helps. I am also bringing in a poop sample to be tested. Thank you guys all the advice you have given me it has been very helpful!
Here are fecal and feet pictures.

 

[kinyonga]

Good luck with your chameleon. I hope he recovers.