HELP!!! Eye problem with Simba!!!

[KatCham]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Simba. Nosey Be x BB Ambilobe Panther chameleon, male 14 months old. Had him 11 months.
Handling - Hardly ever. Doesn't like it so only when I do a thorough clean.
Feeding - Locusts(staple) wax worms, morio worms, butter worms, silk worms. 6 feeders mon wed and fri, now daily as he seems a bit thin although he puffs himself out and sucks himself in all of the time?? Locusts gut loaded with cabbage, carrot, peppers, watercress, romaine etc and Bug grub and bug gel...Supplements - Komodo cricket dust calcium only no d3every feed (mon and fri, now every day except for multi vit day) T rex chameleon calcium plus which is a calcium, multi vitamin(inc vit a) with d3 powder used once a week
Watering - Misting 3 times a day and a water dripper. Have seen him drink.
Fecal Description - brown solid with white urate with a tiny bit yellow on the end. not tested yet but hopefully being tested at vets on friday
History - changed ficus and schefflera plant then removed schefflera. always had ficus in enclosure without issues.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Reptibreeze mesh cage 18" x 18" x 36"
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 linear uv tube. 50 w house bulb for basking spot? uv on 7-8 basking spot 8 till 7?
Temperature - Basking spot temp 30-31C bottom of cage 19c? Lowest overnight temp 15-16C? digital temp probes bottom of cage and directly under basking light
Humidity - normally 60-70%? misting creates humidity. round humidity gauge to measure.
Plants - fake and real ficus (removed schefflera)
Placement - Spare room. no air vents or fans and only traffic is me when i go to mist/feed/clean. Top of cage about 5 ft 3 from the floor.
Location - Houghton le Spring, Durham. North East England.

Current Problem:

EYES SWOLLEN!!

As some of you know, when I posted the latest vid of Simba Jann kindly advised his eyes looked a little swollen. Always good to have an expert eye!! Thanks Jann!! xx

To be honest I just couldn't afford to get him straight to a vet at that time so the only thing I could think of that I had changed was the addition of a schefflera. So I removed it and his eyes seemed to return to normal.

I thought that was what had caused the swelling......WRONG!!!

They are now swollen again, but now they look worse and his right eye seems bigger than the left.

I'm devastated as it looks like there's something behind it!!! I just wish I had taken him to a vet in the first place as a precaution.

He is now insured and I have him booked in with the exotic animal vet at our surgery this Friday (She only works Mondays and Fridays!) I am going to take a poop sample with me too to get him tested for parasites while I'm there.

I took some pics of him tonight before lights out to show you all.

Although I am taking him to the vet I just wondered if anyone has any advice at all. What is it, what causes it, what can I do??

I hate myself for not taking him when Jann first mentioned it but I had no money at all.

Let me know what you think PLEASE!!!!

Here are the pics:

 

[jannb]

Hi Kat, I would recommend a vets visit. That one eye looks to maybe have a plug in it. He could have an infection. I would go to a good chameleon vet for an opinion.

 

[KatCham]

Thanks jann.
Taking him on Friday. Will keep u posted x

 

[KatCham]

Hi All,

WHAT A FULL ON DAY!!! I've only just sat down!!!

Anyway, results of vet trip:

Managed to find a carrier for him, complete with perch/branch to sit on (put a fake plant in it too and once he was in, which he wasn't the least bit amused at, I put a blanket over it so as to reduce the stress)

5 min car trip later, Nicole calls us through, lifts the blanket off the carrier.

AND HE'S CURED!!!

SERIOUSLY, eyes completely back to normal!!! The vet examined him, in his eyes, in his mouth and couldnt find anything wrong. She said his eyes are clear and responding to light as they should, she said his mouth was the picture of health and he was a very handsome man. As his eyes were not swollen AT ALL at the vets, she said she didn't want to give antibiotics if she didn't know what she was treating as it would stress him out and cause more harm than good. She said if it comes back, they could X RAY his head to make sure there is nothing going on behind his eyes.

I wanted her to know why I had brought him so I showed her the pics I originally posted. She couldn't believe how puffed up his eyes were, but couldn't give a reason why they were like that. She suggested I keep a diary of when I notice it happening, after feeding/misting, different times of day in case act of feeding causing pressure behind his eyes etc... She asked all of the usual questions, is he eating and drinking ok, YES he never misses and I see him drinking as well as the white bit of his poo being white with no yellow, does he rub his eyes on branches/cage a lot, NO only when shedding etc... Oh, what feeders and what supplements...happy with answer.etc...

I spoke to her about reading about Ficus being on the safe plant list but the sap having irritated eyes in chameleons and that I was going to get different plants just in case. She agreed it was a good idea in case that was the cause, so I went and bought him 4 new Yucca plants. Gave his enclosure a good clean (too many sperm plugs to mention!! ICK!!)

Here's his new jungle:

Then I misted him and fed him.

He seemed very happy:

Noticed him lapping the leaves so I gave him a good long mist, him drinking the whole time....

.....THEN!!! What do i notice??? His eyes swollen again!!!!

I'VE GOT NO IDEA NOW!!! Is it the water making them swell??

Oh, Nicole also rang me and left a message to say the poo sample I left had been tested and is negative for parasites, so not that. She asked me to ring to advise if symptoms returned. Which you now know, they did, so i will be ringing her to let her know.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEAS I'D BE SO GRATEFUL!!!

ALSO!!!!!...........

When I went to the pet shop that I get his feeders from, to get his new UV tube, got strange advice from the owner:

I asked him about the panther cham which I assumed was a girl because of size and colour, but could well be a boy (separate thread) a massive one!
I explained my male was not as big as that one and he was 14 months old and full of colour. Summary of his reply:

The wholesaler he gets them from didn't have much info!!

It's probably a boy because he's quite big. The other cham in the cage is quarter the size and a sort of rusty red colour but he says they came in at the same time. He doesn't know what locale it is or exactly how old, probably about 4 or 5 months old!!! Simba fit on the end of my finger at that age!!

He asked what cage I had Simba in. When I advised a mesh cage he said that was why he's smaller coz his metabolism has slowed right down as you can't keep the heat in.
They keep their chams in vivariums and its a matter of opinion but he doesn't sell the mesh cages and told the rep that came in offering them that we don't live in Florida, we live in the North East of England so a vivarium is better (wood tank with glass front) and mesh tanks are no good for this country. If you want to sell them, go to Florida!

I said he's kept really warm for 12 hours a day (31C) basking spot with gradient down to 19C and at night it doesn't go below 16C because of the heating in the house.

He said if vivariums are no good why do pet shops keep chameleons in them??

They never switch off their heat source otherwise they'd have to go round and individually switch all of the heaters off in every enclosure, so their chams are plumper because their metabolism is faster, due to the constant heat.

He never said, but they have UV lights on all of the cages so does that mean they leave those on 24/7 too?!?!

I'd just like to mention here that they had a big female in there a few months ago that had been there about a year, always had peeling skin and HUGE locusts riding on top of her when I went in, then she died!!

It's a matter of opinion he said, but you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.(when I said mesh cages are very well recommended as they need plenty ventilation) He said chameleons do well in little ventilation!?!?!?

Now I'm worried!! Are Simba's temps right?!?! Should I heat him at night? Is he too small/thin for his age?? Should I feed him more?? (Although he has left locusts when fed every day.)

I asked for a Reptisun 5.0 UV tube. He didnt have that one but had a reptiglo 5.0 (still the tube type) which he said was the same thing just a different brand. Is that right??

I hate this, I just want to do what's best for Simba??? Is my husbandry correct for UK based on info on original post??

HELP!!

I'm pleased the vet found nothing wrong but eyes still swelled up again when I misted him, and then I had that kick in the teeth from the pet shop owner.

Full of doubts again now!!!
Would appreciate ANY advice x

 

[kinyonga]

Is he licking off the artificial plants? How long have they been in the cage, if he is? Did you wash all the plants (both sides of the leaves, artificial and real)?

 

[KatiLemons]

Are you misting with distilled water or tap? Also I was going to ask how often you change your uvb tube?

 

[Ryans reptile room]

Change the plant! The best plants to use is an umbrella tree at like Walmart home depot for like 5 bucks try that and let me know how it goes I had the same issue w my veiled and a ficus back in the day worth a shot right?

 

[KatCham]

SIMBA IS NOT RIGHT!!

Eyes still REALLY swollen when I just went home for lunch. Worse than before.

I tried feeding him some morios. He must have shot at them a dozen times AND HE MISSED EVERY TIME!!! He's shooting too far to the right

Reptile vet we saw yesterday has a weekend off so they have given me the number for another vets who apparently keep reptiles themselves and have done for years!! I'm waiting for them to call me back.

I'm so worried

Answers to questions:

I change UV every 6 months and have just changed it this morning as it was due a change this month.

I use pre boiled and cooled water to mist and in his dripper.

I gave his enclosure a really good clean but he seems worse than before.

There has to be something wrong with him for him to miss that many times in a row when feeding!!! I will post the pics I took when I get home from work.

And I'll let you know what the other vet says.

I wish they'd hurry up and call I'm so worried I could cry!!

 

[KatCham]

Change the plant! The best plants to use is an umbrella tree at like Walmart home depot for like 5 bucks try that and let me know how it goes I had the same issue w my veiled and a ficus back in the day worth a shot right?

I have changed his ficus plant for 4 Yucca plants.

 

[KatCham]

Is he licking off the artificial plants? How long have they been in the cage, if he is? Did you wash all the plants (both sides of the leaves, artificial and real)?

Yes he is.

I gave his cage a good go over before I put the real plants in but I will take all of them out and give them a good scrub again when I get home from work!

Could this be the cause of such major swelling in his eyes?!?!

I hate not being able to rush him to the reptile vet NOW!

 

[Solid Snake]

In regards to what the guy at the shop said.
He is correct, you cant always trust the internet.
Just keep in mind, that this particular corner of the internet, is in it for the love of the animal, while shops(even if they care) are in it for profit.
Any enclosure that keeps the cham safely contained, allows the UVB light in, and has suffecient air flow will work.
IMO, shops keep chams in terrariums(even here in the states) because they "look" more "appealing" to customers, and they are convienient for the shop, because they can put a wide variety of animals in them, thus cutting costs. While you can only keep a limited number of animals in a screened enclosure.
It does not sound like they are taking very good care of their animals at all IMO.
Your chameleon is not smaller because of his enclosure, and it effecting his metabolism.
You can use the shefflera. Its fine, and my panthers favorite plant.
You should only use the multivitamin, and D3 twice a month maybe. I dont think thats causing his issue.
I know its hard having him under the weather, but try to relax.
When you cleaned, did you use any chemicals?

 

[KatCham]

Vet just rang to say it sounds very much like an allergic reaction to something. His symptoms disappeared when at vets so it is something in his enclosure.

She has advised to sterlise EVERYTHING in his encosure and everything I use for him with the stuff you use for baby bottles.

If that doesn't help, take out yucca plants to see if he improves.

Need to locate what it is causing the reaction.

If he is no better by Monday, take him to them for steroid eye drops.

I can't wait to get home to sort everything.

I hope he can overcome all this stress!!!

 

[Solid Snake]

Can you think of anything like airfresheners, or even a large flower garden outside the home he may be reacting to?

 

[Miss Lily]

Sorry, double post - browser playing up!

 

[Miss Lily]

Kat, I know how stressful it is to have a poorly cham. There is only one other thing I can think of. The sprayer that you use to mist him with, have you washed it at all? Do you spray him directly? I am just wondering if there is a build up of bacteria in the bottle which may affect his eyes. Is it worse after misting? I can't pinpoint anything else, as you have already made a lot of changes. Maybe buy a new mister bottle and see if things improve. I get through mine quite often, lol, as they always seem to start dripping before they can get gunky!!

I know when the cresties had worms I had to wash al their things in 10% bleach solution every night, so they only have very basic set ups and everything was plastic and non- porous. Make sure you rinse everything really well after. If you have any fake plants that are material/silk, you will not be able to get the steriliser/bleach smell out no matter how many times you rinse. I found that one out the hard way, lol!

 

[KatCham]

Thanks for the advice Tiff. The vet did mention that can happen so I am going to sterilise EVERYTHING tonight!!

I feel like such a bad mam making him poorly. I always try to keep everything as clean as I can!!

Will keep you posted xx

 

[KatCham]

Can you think of anything like airfresheners, or even a large flower garden outside the home he may be reacting to?

No, I don't spray anything in that room coz Simba is in there.

All gardens around us are either flagged or just lawn.

Will keep you all posted. x

 

[Solid Snake]

No, I don't spray anything in that room coz Simba is in there.

All gardens around us are either flagged or just lawn.

Will keep you all posted. x

Just trying to think of everything.
I hope he gets better soon.

 

[KatCham]

Just trying to think of everything.
I hope he gets better soon.

I know, thanks hun. I'm the same!!

I'm hoping that giving everything a good sterlise will get rid of any nasties. If thats whats causing it, then he should be ok within a couple of days (everything crossed!!)

Just its going to be a lot of stress for him with all of that moving around in and out of his enclosure within just 2 days. Just hope he can cope with it!!

Will let you know xx

 

[Solid Snake]

Hell cope fine.
Best wishes to both of you!