help a first time chameleon keeper!!

K

kelso

New Member
Cage Info:
Cage Type - 18" x 18" x 24" aluminum cage- all screen
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 uv light, 75w basking light. on at 6 a.m. off at 7 p.m. for the summer
Temperature - Basking usually high 80's and 75f in the lower area. Probably goes to about 65-68 at night. I have two electronic hygro/thermometers placed in the cage
Humidity - About 40 % usually- spikes to 90 when i mist. i hand mist twice a day for about 5 mins with warm water- he has a dripper going non stop and a warm mist humidifier in his room, again i have 2 hygrometers
Plants - I am presently in desperate search for a good real plant- right now he only has fakes. I've looked everywhere- going to have to order. Not much around here.
Placement - The cage is in my "lizard room." the only time someone is in there is to feed him or the gecko, the door stays shut. there is a heat vent right under his cage but it is covered with a large towel. It is not high enought but with my drainage system thats where is has to be.
Location - Northern Alberta Canada, faaar north!

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male panther- i'm guessing 3 or 4 months maybe? i've had him for about 3 weeks.
Handling - None
Feeding - Mostly crickets- i've tried butter and wax worms and he won't eat them. He gets about 12-14 small crickets a day- but he doesn't eat them all. He gets fed in the morning before i leave for work- around 7 a.m. I gut load with mostly carrots and romaine and oranges.
Supplements - I use rep-cal herptivite with beta carotene twice a week. rep-cal calcium with D3 twice a week. Fluker's calcium: phosphorus 2:1 three times a week.
Watering - Dripper and misting twice a day for about 4 mins- and i have seen him drink a couple times but he doesn't like me that much so he keeps his eyes on me when i'm around.
Fecal Description - he's never been tested for anything. his feces looks normal to me- small brown feces. his urates were a bit yellow when i first got him but the level of yellow has decreased alot in the last week
History - I really haven't had him for any length of time- i know that the pet store i got him from was poorly informed.
Current Problem - Other than the little bit of yellow in his urate he seems fine- he poops usually once a day- there was one day that he didn't but i usually find feces in there every morning. he doesn't move very fast at all- i don't know if he just watches me or if chameleons just generally move slowly. But what i'm really concerned about is whether or not he is eating... I know he must be eating something because he is pooping something out- but i only seen him eat once- the day after i brought him home, and as i said before he leaves alot of left over crickets in there. Other feeders don't seem to matter (although i have next to nothing available to me unless i order online- which i will eventually be doing) and he doesn't seem to have grown since i brought him home. Like at all, i was told once i got him home in his own cage he would grow like a weed but he hasn't grown at all and he has not had a shedding since i brought him home- i am not aware how often he should be shedding but i'm kind of concerned that there's something wrong with him... help please !! :confused:
 
temps are too high. should be 82* max in the basking spot
Crickets are a good choice of food. Butters are good for calcium and wax worms just as a treat (1 or so a week max)
You should be dusting with plain calcium about every feeding, and you can back off a little on the D3 and multivit. a bit.
For plants. If there are any WalMart or Home Depot style stores, they have Golden Pothos, Umbrella plants, ficus or hibiscus at this time especially since its landscaping time. Those are the cheapest, safe and hardy plants for your set up. Everything else seems to be in good order. If someone else has any thoughts Im sure they will chime in.
 
ok, thanks muchly, i will raise my heat lamp a bit. yeah i know the wax worms are all fat but i was just trying to see if i could get the chameleon to eat something different. so D3 and multi once a week and replace with reg calcium? is my calcium a good choice? yeah i've been to every garden store where i live- the best i can find is a couple small draceanas. trust me i've done the leg work. haha. the garden store here told me they would call me if they got any umbrellas or ficus in.
 
im not really sure on your calcium. Most people here use Rep-cal. It doesn't sound like a bad product though. Yes just replace it into your current schedule. Maybe its just because I am quite a bit south of you, but it seems like those plants are common in home improvement stores year round... nothing in the indoor section at your home improvement stores? thats where pothos and umbrella usually are. Also, there are many other safe plants that may be more available in your area. Try this list http://www.flchams.com/safe_plant_list.asp
 
ok great, thanks! yeah i can't seem to have any luck anywhere.. i had a whole list of non-toxic plants and all i could find was draceanas and asters. maybe they were already bought up or something but i can't find anything big or strong enough for him to crawl around on.
Any thoughts on him not eating too much or growing though? how often/when should he be shedding? it's kind of concerning me...
 
When you say small, describe the size(mm is fine:))? If they are too large, you are over feeding. They say no larger than the gap between the eyes. Your putting 10-12 in the cage every day? how many are you finding dead or left in the cage? You may want to try feeding less, like 7-8 a day or do a alternate schedule where it is for example 5-10-5-10-5 etc. Or maybe he is bored with crickets? Try other feeders such as phoenix or super worms.

My veiled is 4.5 months and is growing like a weed. He eats about 8 small crickets a day on average. I just made a nice order from Mulberry Farms though so Im very excited to see how he reacts to other feeders. Mine sheds about every 4 weeks. You may have purchased him right after a shed and one may be coming soon.

side question. Your UVB bulb is a linear tube and not a compact fluorescent bulb correct?
 
I had the same problem with my young panther cham when I first got him - we would put plenty of crickets in his cage, but he would eat many... Turned out that WAS the problem!

We decided to wait until he had eaten all his crickets, and then went one whole day without putting anymore in, to get him nice and hungry. Then we started putting just a few crickets in his cage at a time (3-5), would wait until we had seen that he had eaten them all (checking every couple of hours, not standing around), and once we saw they were gone, we'd put in a couple more.

I think that overcrowding a small cage with crickets makes the cham feel less like its his own territory. Give him a day all to himself in there, and once you put a few crickets in, it will be like they're invading his space... and he wants them out of there! Either that, or too many of them were just overwhelming him...

So to make a long story short... I tried this with my panther and after a long period of not eating much and not growing, he now eats like a champ and has more than doubled his size in a couple months! :)

As a warning though, if you do see him having a healthy appetite and he STILL doesn't grow, definitely fork out a few bucks for a fecal test. He could have parasites that are preventing him from growing.
 
they are two week crickets, so they are very small... i haven't measured them but they are the smallest crickets available to me. and yeah i use the tube uv light. and i will pick up some supers today.. see if he will react to those. and i've actually had him 4 weeks today. i will back off on the feeding a little, try a different schedule. Thanks alot for all your inputs guys i really need help from someone with more experiance than my self =]
i will remove all the left over the crickets tonight and skip feeding tomorrow and see what he will eat sunday, it's a good time for me to be able to moniter his feeding better since i'm only off on the weekends. what you said about the crickets invading his space/ overwhelming him yogi really makes sense!! and yeah i was trying to avoid a vet trip just so i wouldn't stress him anymore but i wouldn't mind bringing a fecal sample in at all- not if its going to make my little guy happier and healthier!!
also- just wondering how i would be able to tell if he was male/female? the pet store told me he was male but because of some of the other things they've told me that i have found to be untrue i'm reluctant to believe them.. thanks again guys !!! =] =] =]
i just want to be a good chameleon mommy!
 
kelso said:
they are two week crickets, so they are very small... i haven't measured them but they are the smallest crickets available to me. and yeah i use the tube uv light. and i will pick up some supers today.. see if he will react to those. and i've actually had him 4 weeks today. i will back off on the feeding a little, try a different schedule. Thanks alot for all your inputs guys i really need help from someone with more experiance than my self =]
i will remove all the left over the crickets tonight and skip feeding tomorrow and see what he will eat sunday, it's a good time for me to be able to moniter his feeding better since i'm only off on the weekends. what you said about the crickets invading his space/ overwhelming him yogi really makes sense!! and yeah i was trying to avoid a vet trip just so i wouldn't stress him anymore but i wouldn't mind bringing a fecal sample in at all- not if its going to make my little guy happier and healthier!!
also- just wondering how i would be able to tell if he was male/female? the pet store told me he was male but because of some of the other things they've told me that i have found to be untrue i'm reluctant to believe them.. thanks again guys !!! =] =] =]
i just want to be a good chameleon mommy!
Click to expand...

According to your time description, he should b around 4 months old now, correct?..
2 weeks cricket essentially is about 5/8"-3/4"..
He should be fine eating those.
He's pooping.. that means he's eating behind your back.
So, that's good.

As told by others, you just might get him when he shed, give him another week or two. He should be shedding.
Actually 12 crickets is not uncommon at all. Mine eats more than that when he was a baby -close to 18- 20 appropriate size crix.
I was a bit concern back then if he is gonna be overweight. But, I monitor his weight routinely and he always in a good form.
But, if he cannot finish them all then I agree try to put around 9-10.

Repcal is a good supplement.
so you have Repcal NO D3 (right?), Herptivite, and Repcal with D3.
And honestly your old supplementation is fine. I see nothing wrong with that.

twice a week D3 and twice a week Vitamin twice a week Calcium and 1 day no dusting is perfect. I supplements all my chams with that regiment.

Everybody supplements differently. There is no fixed rule as long as you understand that you can overdose your chameleon with D3.
The secret is in how you dust your cricket.
Just a tiny amount of supplement that just barely coat the crix.
Don't chocke the crix with the dust and turn them into white ghost.
The crix should not change in color after dusting.

Don't skip the feeding altogether.
Just offer him a bit less tomorrow.
post a pic of your panther. Specifically his tail (profile) nearby the vent slightly toward the end of the tail. We might be able to help you determine its sex.
 
yeah when i got him the "reptile expert" at the pet store told me he thought he was "around three months old" . i will get pics of him up asap.. make sure he is a male! i like the colours of the male better- and would also prefer to not deal with gravid females.
any ideas on how to dust the crickets lightly though? i just put them in a bag with the supplement and they usually come out looking like ghosts? but i also think he waits for a bit to eat and the crickets probably get rid of most of the supplements before they get eaten, especially since i mist right before i feed.
this forum is awesome- i'm loving all the help guys!! and can definitley use it!!!
 
kelso said:
yeah when i got him the "reptile expert" at the pet store told me he thought he was "around three months old" . i will get pics of him up asap.. make sure he is a male! i like the colours of the male better- and would also prefer to not deal with gravid females.
any ideas on how to dust the crickets lightly though? i just put them in a bag with the supplement and they usually come out looking like ghosts? but i also think he waits for a bit to eat and the crickets probably get rid of most of the supplements before they get eaten, especially since i mist right before i feed.
this forum is awesome- i'm loving all the help guys!! and can definitley use it!!!
Click to expand...

put crix in a cup.
Put a very tiny pinch of the supplement in a cup (I used a plastic spoon and i scoop a very little amount using the tip of the spoon).
shake the cup.

If it come out looking like a ghost, you put too much supplement. Reduce it. You can oversupplement your chameleon causing OD'd on Vit D3, calcium, and so on. Remember over supplementing can be as deadly as under supplementing.

Remember, supplement is suppose to do what it meant to do... to supplement.. major sources of vitamin, calcium, and so on should come from the gutload that you feed crix with.
So, feed the crix with healthy vegetable diet.
Romaine lettuce is poor in nutrition as it contains only water.
Try feeding your crix dandelion leaves, kale, collard greens, carrot, and apple slices.. You can also purchase a very healthy cricket gutload from a forum member ssimwiss (that's the gutload i used now for all my chams).
 
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Try to arrange it to drip on the leaves of real or fake plants if you can. The leaves will bounce a little (if real anyway) movement will attract it.
Barring that be sure the dripper is somewhere it spends much time, IE near the basking spot is good.
You try handfeeding something it likes right under the dripper, eventually it'll notice it!
 
Yeah, the length of hose it came with isn't very long so i have it falling on leaves on the back corner of his cage, he does spend a considerable amount of time there though because its the closest to his uv light which he loves to perch under, but his chosen perch there is higher than where the dripper hose sits. there isn't alot of foliage near his basking spot, but i'm going plant hunting again this evening so hopefully i can find something better for him.
and hand feeding is out of the question- if i even stand outside the cage he shows stressed colours. i've only seen him eat once, the day after i brought him home- he's so scared of me. =[
 
Ok, in that case dont upset him for now, but try to re-arrange slightly if you can so the dripper is easy reach, even a bare branch so he can climb up under it, is good.
Meanwhile keep an eye on the urate and keep misting.
This kind of stuff is half the fun! :)
 
ok, here are a few thoughts....

as for gutload, I agree, try to use Kale or other "greens" that were said.
romaine is NOT as bad as some have said, it's just not close to the calsium levels as dandelion and Kale. baby bokchoi, a chiniese cabage is also good if you can get it.
I use orange slices or carrot as a moisture source.

I also use crushed up cereal every other day or so. multi grain chereos or kashi heart to heart is good.

how high is your cage? I'm talking from the ground.
is the bottom of the cage abouve your chest hight?
if not, try sitting on the floor, or on your knees when you try to feed.
by being "lower" then your cham, he will be less scared of you.
also, move "SLOWLY". quick moovements will frighten him.

you wana watch him?
sit on the floore about 10 feet away.
each day moove a foot closer to watch him.
I'll bet in a few days to a week or two you'll be able to hand feed like nothing was ever wrong.

give him space or alone time.
but get him used to you watching him by using the above methods.

above all, never give up. the payoffs are big.

Harry
 
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