Has anyone seen these?

[ChameleonFan1989]

Looks great.....

but if it ain't free range... it ain't workin for me....

I think my whole obsession with chams is that there is always a way to make them happier, you can give them more plants, more diverse food selection and variety, better habitat and realism to make it as jungle like as possible.... and if you have the same mentality I don't see how you could keep a cage, I got rid of mine after 6 months.....

I know some people are busy or have dogs or cats, but still i'm gone all day and I provided a good setup... hmmmmmm interesting

Free rang is ok but doesn't work for everyone. I know free ranging won't work for me because my parents don't to constantly vacuum a expensive carpet or have it soaking wet from misting and isn't a method I don't like anyway. But since it works for you, good job

Anyway these cages look awesome, they look really neat and tiday

 

[BugCatcher]

Thats got to be the best cage set up I have seen to date for sure.

 

[EvilLost]

Sorry but I have to give you a wake up call. Do you have any idea how many chams have died as a result of free ranging? You may be able to set it up and have it work. Most people just don't see or anticipate the problems until after they happen. Just so you know I can talk about both free range and cages because I do both at this minute. If you have other pets, or small children, it is a recipe for disaster. For example we had a person on here in tears as her cham walked across her sister's rat's cage. The rat ripped the cham to bits through the cage, another had a small child leave the door open to the area where the free range was. When the cham was finally found it was dead. Having been in chameleons for years, I can go on & on with these examples.

I am sorry for the rant but some days I just can't take it. My chameleons in cages have more room that people who thing a small tree is a free range. I have no idea what your set up is, but most likely I could tell you how to improve it just from experience. Free ranging takes careful planning and lots of space. Also how many chameleons do you have that you free range? Do you have room mates for family? Lots of us have other people or pets of both who live with us. You can think you are as careful as can be, but anything can happen. I have a cham free ranging, just 1 cham, in a very large room with lots of trees and plants as places for him to go. Here is a link to his free range.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/lennys-free-range-revision-3-a-64449/ This same cham walked out the door to his room while I was filling his dripper!!! Had he walked about 30 feet he would have encountered my 2 dogs, and I would be minus a beloved cham. I am very careful of that guy and he still managed an escape, so don't tell me it can't be done.

I try really hard to stay out of discussions regarding free ranges, but I just wish some of you who are so pro free range would understand it is not for everyone. You are not helping people when the answer to everything is free range. That is simple not true. Any of you free rangers are welcome to show me how I am wrong. As far as living longer if they free range, i have an 8 year old panther who has lived in a cage his whole life. Stress is bad for chams right? Does anyone know if the stress of people bothering/holding them, or just seeing other chams, may also shorten a chams live? Just the other side of the coin, so please consider both as being how chams should be kept.

Completely agree. I free-range myself when its appropriate and because I am home often and I have a fairly extensive amount of experience with animals and monitoring their behavior closely (I check my animals at least three times a day each).

I do *NOT* recommend free-ranging for anyone but highly experienced users and those who are around to monitor extensively, especially during the first few weeks of free-ranging. Ultimately, I do believe it leads to less territorial chameleons, but them not hissing at us doesn't necessarily mean THEY are happier (though many will argue they are). Even so, the trade-off between safety and "happier" chameleons is not worth it where the GREATER MAJORITY of users are unable to predict the various pitfalls that can happen in free-ranging.

Many people look at someone elses setup via a picture and think "oh i'll recreate that!" but you don't notice all the subtle essentials that aren't clearly labeled out in the picture.... from personal experience, I can tell you it GREATLY mattered the way I arranged my plants and the distance of my bulbs from them. A 2" "window" was my sweetspot after 3+ weeks of experiementing...too close he tries to climb the bulbs, too far he's cold and goes exploring for a warmer location elsewhere. Most users will not go through this type of experimentation nor monitoring (and many rightfully don't have the time). In those situations, a large safe cage is a great setup.

 

[thephotoprincess]

Completely agree. I free-range myself when its appropriate and because I am home often and I have a fairly extensive amount of experience with animals and monitoring their behavior closely (I check my animals at least three times a day each).

I do *NOT* recommend free-ranging for anyone but highly experienced users and those who are around to monitor extensively, especially during the first few weeks of free-ranging. Ultimately, I do believe it leads to less territorial chameleons, but them not hissing at us doesn't necessarily mean THEY are happier (though many will argue they are). Even so, the trade-off between safety and "happier" chameleons is not worth it where the GREATER MAJORITY of users are unable to predict the various pitfalls that can happen in free-ranging.

Many people look at someone elses setup via a picture and think "oh i'll recreate that!" but you don't notice all the subtle essentials that aren't clearly labeled out in the picture.... from personal experience, I can tell you it GREATLY mattered the way I arranged my plants and the distance of my bulbs from them. A 2" "window" was my sweetspot after 3+ weeks of experiementing...too close he tries to climb the bulbs, too far he's cold and goes exploring for a warmer location elsewhere. Most users will not go through this type of experimentation nor monitoring (and many rightfully don't have the time). In those situations, a large safe cage is a great setup.

I love free ranging but I also keep some of my chameleons in cages. My Kinyongia multituberculata girls are very tiny and shy - if they were to wander from a free range they could easily be hurt. My male veiled is great with people but very aggressive with other chameleons - he goes looking to cause trouble!

I love being able to free range the melleri but it's a lot of work! It takes space and a lot of time to keep up. We also rent so I too have to be careful about holes in the wall and ceiling and of course water damage. I've worked hard to make it work and I have the luxury of working from home so I am here to make sure they stay put and play nice together! It's also just my husband and I and no kids or cats or dogs. We do have to be careful because occasionally one will get down and walk across the room to go sit in another plant.

Honestly, it is a risk and we understand that and do everything to minimize the risk. It's not for everyone and if someone can't do it properly it's better to have a nice cage. Lots of pets live happily in cages and so can chameleons.

 

[CauseNAffect]

Laurie-- Do you have any idea how many chams have died as a result of free ranging? You may be able to set it up and have it work. Most people just don't see or anticipate the problems until after they happen. Just so you know I can talk about both free range and cages because I do both at this minute. If you have other pets, or small children, it is a recipe for disaster.

Well.... it's frusterating for me when I discuss free ranging that these responses come up, because it is straight up common sense that it's a bad idea to free range if any of these concerns are issues for you. It's pretty obvious that if you have dogs running all over shredding things and dangerous parts of your home for chams, then you can't do this..... I didn't suggest that it was great for everyone, but if you are able to do so, it is certainly the best way to go in my opinion, and I made choices that allowed me to do so...

My Situation
1) My first priority and concern is always the cham before myself
2) I didn't buy any other pets specifically because I didn't want them to be an issue with my chams, or cause any type of stress or danger making me confine them to a cage
3) I got a new place, a one bedroom apartment in NYC where I live alone, So i could build my dream free range and have them live amongst me without cages, making my home theres as well and making it as safe as possible. PS. my apartment isn't that big and there is no where for them to escape to, If I left anything open at all, id get robbed blind before the cham could even consider leaving.
4) I spent a large amount of time and money, building a huge free range with ropes, plants, bamboo, and installing the proper lighting / misting / everything to make it blend in with my apartment, and still provide a great home for my chams, *Which I'm still in the proccess of working on* because I work full time and I have to have a system that can sustain their life without me being around alot
5) I'm attentive to their needs and I know when there is an issue or what can be improved upon.

The thing about it is that IT IS EXTREMELEY DIFFICULT and time consuming to have a free range like I do, and i'm constantly making time or money sacrifices for them, but naturally, because I am very interested in keeping them and the cham hobby.... that this was the only thing I wanted for them, no cages....and i put myself in a position where I could do that, and I know that everyone doesn't have that opportunity, but I didn't either, and I made it work.... It's not for everyone, but if you are already on here everyday reading and learning about them, than why not try to give them the best life you can?

I have 2 chams that free range and own an entire living room in my apartment, with plenty of places to eat, hide, sleep, run arond, with multiple basking areas and misting zones for each animal....Theres no stress, and they barely see me, and don't see other people, it's literally a cham paradise that I made for them, and theres absolutely 0 chance I would accept hearing that a caged cham would be happier than a cham that has the opportunity to have what I provided, not everyone can do it, but there is an undeniable benefit for them to be free. I just took it to another level, and yes problems do arise but it's part of the hobby, in striving for perfection......

so that's my deal at least

 

[creddjobs]

Those are nice!!! as well as those bad A$$ hardwood floors! Somebody got some MONEY$$$!!!!!! LOL