Green Python Question

[jojackson]

Im hoping somebody who has kept green pythons for some time can shed some light on something.
Im currently rehabilitating a green (oscar), somewhere between 12-18 months old.
The last few feedings have gone well (1 mouse sized rat) and without issue.
Yesterday, day 7 after the last feed, while misting in the afternoon, he moved off to a higher branch then suddenly vomited a bolus of fur.
It was purely fur only, everything digested.
He did spend much of the last 7 days on a branch at the lower range of his gradient (unless he was moving late at night).

No previous history of vomiting or regurtitation known, never done it before with me.
Has been wormed (repeat dose several feeds ago (broad spectrum reptiworm)), no dead parasites detected. Is steadily gaining weight.

Did the misting upset him suddenly for some reason, or the perching at lower temps?
There are perches at various temps throughout the cage, all of which it uses from time to time. last poo 9/10/ normal .
will have next dropping examined for parasite presence, since this seems likely, meanwhile any thoughts appreciated.

p.s has previously pooed fur only droopings with urates.

 

[chameleon97]

Do you normally mist after feedings? When they have a full stomach, and get freaked, they may vomit.

What is the temps in the cage?
The lower Branch?

BTW, i want one of those more than any other herp.

-Steve

 

[OntarioLizardman]

type in morelia viridis forum on yahoo.com
post your questions there, some of the most knowledgeable chondro folks around

 

[jojackson]

Cham97 it wasnt after feeding.
Thanks Richard Ill do that!

 

[chameleon97]

oops... i didnt read that right.

But what are your temps?

 

[skyedog]

That is odd. I used to have a green tree python years ago. Beautiful snake but wow what a bad temperment. The snake never did what you are mentioning. I know some white lipped pythons do that. They call it casting. But usually thats only a few days after eating. Let us know what you find out.

 

[jojackson]

Been advised to stick to adult mice, apparently some have issues with rat fur.
They did mention Albertesi do that too.
Seems none the worse for wear, back to normal today (crapped last night).

Temps range from 25c/77f on the floor to 32c/89f at the highest perch near the roof.
A variety of perches are available top to bottom and left to right. It seems to prefer those between 28c/82f and 30c/86f which it would experience in FNQ where its from.
Humidity is minimal 65%, cyclic to 86-90% once a day from late afternoon into the evening, drying out overnight. This is claimed to simulate weather patterns there (breif afternoon storms, followed by high humidity, dryer in the mornings-midday).

He seems to hungry again, perched to feed in the hunting position. May offer an adult mouse tonight (day 9). Thanks again.

 

[OntarioLizardman]

Hey jojackson, hows your chondro doing?

those snakes have a special place in my heart

 

[jojackson]

Thanks for asking Rich, he's going well and gaining weight, seems brighter too.
Much nocturnal activity. Due for another feed about now. currently 240grams.
cheers

 

[SS4Luck]

good to hear nothing happen to the guy

I think my next project is going to be a red GTP

 

[jojackson]

Thanks Lucky!

 

[Fearaffect]

Thanks Lucky!

Chondros as with Emerald Tree Boas dont need much food like others. This has been one of the "mysteries" surrounding them until it was figured out about why they tended to do this in the past. I fed mine 2 times a month...any more and some will regurgitate the food.

 

[jojackson]

Noted! thanks Brye. Can you give me some idea on where his weight is at?
Hes apparently around 18 months, about 3ft and currently weighs 240grams
Despite being arborial he still seems on the slim side to me.
I couldnt get an understandable answer at the chondro forum about weather he's still underweight or not.
His body tone looks good, ribs arn't apparent and spine is no more pronounced than ive seen in healthy specimans. I just want to get an idea of exceptable weight range.
cheers

 

[heloderm]

Let me chime in here please. Chondros (green tree pythons) and emeralds are COMPLETELY different animals. Yes emeralds do have problems if fed to much and will regurge. Chondros DON'T have this problem. Infact you can feed the hell out of a chondro! I've kept TONS of chondros and never had the problem you speak of. I've never once heard that you couldn't feed rats as that's all I ever fed. The sooner you can get him OFF mice the better off he'll be! Could of just been a freak thing. If your feeding adult mice I surely hope your feeding a few of them per feeding and not just a single mouse. If you could post some pics I could help out a bit more. Chondros shouldn't be fat but they shouldn't have folds in their skin either unless they are close to shedding. I would be feeding once a week to 9 days, no need to wait longer then that. I'm not sure where you are getting your information but I'd ask you either listen to myself or seek out a well known chondro breeder. You are not getting the right information.

Good Luck...

John

 

[Corpsman82]

yea ive really been wanting a GTP or a ETB havent decided yet

 

[Kent67]

Thought I'd chime in here, too. I totally agree with heloderm's post. Chondros can eat just as frequently as any other pythons I know of without fear of regurge. The problem with chondros getting too fat is that those animals have a greatly increased risk of intestinal prolapse, which is not a pretty thing to have to go through for a number of reasons.

Some good forums and sites for the species are www.moreliaviridis.com, www.finegtps.com, and www.moreliapythons.com.


@Corpsman: Get a true cbb in the US GTP. You WON'T be sorry.

 

[jojackson]

Thanks guys,
Im feeding every 9-13 days depending on its willingness to eat/activity/hunting.
Not going beyond rat the size of adult mouse/hopper rat for a few reasons:

1. The snake had been emaciated and hadnt fed for some few months. Without getting longwinded, I decided that smaller meals were better after its long fast, as physiological changes are triggered both when fasting and first taking a meal again.
Basically wanted his digestive system a chance to 'gear up' to full function slowly. (suitable temps/metabolism aside)

2. Apart from the well documented occurance of prolapse in GTP's related to large meals
and to dehydration, This particular bloke is active snake soon after feeding (next few nights) while the food bulge is still quite readily apparent, so I want to avoid overdoing it
to reduce the chances of regurtitation.

3. Simply being a highly arborial species, logic dictates they wouldnt be taking huge meals normally (rather hard to climb/avoid predators when you are shaped like a baseball with a tail. Less time required to digest a meal, means reduced risk of predation while vulnerable.

4. My general gauge of meal size for any snake is that the meal leaves a noticeble but not mobility issue causing bulge. The meal being generally not much bigger than the snakes midsection in diameter, despite their ability to take larger.
(Frequency/weight maintanence requirements/metabolism taken into account)
Digestion does require energy in itself, less energy required as possible for digestion of a nutritious meal, the better he will utilise those meals for recovery of condition.

At present he is doing very well and I expect he will slough again before too long.
He does seem on the light side, but im happy with his steady weightgain, Im monitoring this carefully and recording all data.
According to the GTP forum I joined, his weight is in acceptable range, but I will see him attain a more agreeable visible condition yet, muscle tone seems good but he could be slightly more robust, even for a slender arborial species.

Thanks for your help and advice, much appreciated. Will get some more pics soon while active, to better gauge condition.
cheers

 

[heloderm]

Good to hear! Thought I'd also add that a chondro in nature isn't going to turn down a meal because it's "to big". Snakes eat what they can get ahold of, lizards as well. If people saw some of the things these animals eat in nature they would have a stroke! I've never had a problem with prolapse and I've always fed larger meals myself when it comes to snakes. I've fed 6ft chondros jumbo rats which left a good sized bulge. Really depends on the animal. I would not however recommend doing that to an emerald as they can be difficult when it comes to feeding!

John

 

[jojackson]

Heloderm, while I agree in genral, it should be noted that bigger meals are fewer, much fewer, in the wild than are given in captivity. Gape size does effect meal size for snakes,
I dont think a wild GTP has ever been noted to have eaten anything much bigger than a bird. Im not sure what you call 'jumbo' over there, weightwise, but I would never feed anything bigger than a small rat.
About 20% of body weight per meal is more than enough imo.
"Feeding the hell out of' any reptile is not recommended, or healthy for them.

 

[heloderm]

The first year of a snakes life is where most of it's growth comes from. You can feed them heavy without the risks of health issues later on. I'm not talking about power feeding which people usually do throughout the animals life and that's not good. I disagree with you completely about the animals in the wild. Unless you or I plan on going to study them in the wild then it's purely based on opinion. I can almost say with Certainty that it's been noted somewhere that wild chondros take meals larger then the average sized bird. While it's thought that chondros eat mainly birds in the wild it's been disproven, can't remember where I got that info from. Never feed anything bigger then a small rat? Dude I'd like to see you satisify a retic, burm whatever with a small rat. Snakes bodies were made to be able to streatch and handle larger then normal prey. I simply feed them larger meals less often. Again this complete conversation is going to be based on opinion. I have alot of experience with w.c., c.b., and c.h. chondros and never had a problem.

John