Gravid nutritional needs

[MissSkittles]

I’ve been following the current feeding thread about how much/how often to feed and it’s making me question how to best feed a gravid female. Grumpy ended her receptive phase about a week or so ago and now I’m starting to see egg bulges. Every time I go in the room, she’s coming down to greet me at her feeding spot. She normally doesn’t do this until I approach with food.
I know we feed well after they lay as it takes so much out of them. Shouldn’t we also be feeding them well to help build them up for their hard task of laying? At this point in her cycle, is it already determined how many eggs she’ll produce?

 

[Beman]

@JoXie411 @Kristen Wilkins @kinyonga would be able to give you feed back here.
I am useless being as how I don't know much about the females lol. Eggs scare me

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I’ve been following the current feeding thread about how much/how often to feed and it’s making me question how to best feed a gravid female. Grumpy ended her receptive phase about a week or so ago and now I’m starting to see egg bulges. Every time I go in the room, she’s coming down to greet me at her feeding spot. She normally doesn’t do this until I approach with food.
I know we feed well after they lay as it takes so much out of them. Shouldn’t we also be feeding them well to help build them up their hard task of laying? At this point in her cycle, is it already determined how many eggs she’ll produce?

You have to find her best love . What works for one may not work for all . This approach works for my girls . However if you took in a rescue and had no idea of prior husbandry , or you lives in a warmer humid climate this method already would be hard . @jannb uses this method but her temps are higher so to her location and having them out doors thought summer . You know your girl best always remember this xox .

 

[MissSkittles]

I live in Florida so it is hot and humid most of the time. I keep the house around 73, but past couple of days it’s been chilly so house has been cooler at 70 or a bit below. I’ve been trying to reduce basking temps and amount fed so she doesn’t have a large clutch. It’s definitely a challenge.
Grumpy’s husbandry was all wrong when I got her as a sub adult 6 months ago and she laid her first clutch of eggs in August and before I cut back on temps and feeding.
Is the number of eggs she’ll lay determined at this point of gravidity? I expect she‘ll be laying in about another week or two. If the number of eggs is already set, I’ll feed her daily as she seems to want.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I live in Florida so it is hot and humid most of the time. I keep the house around 73, but past couple of days it’s been chilly so house has been cooler at 70 or a bit below. I’ve been trying to reduce basking temps and amount fed so she doesn’t have a large clutch. It’s definitely a challenge.
Grumpy’s husbandry was all wrong when I got her as a sub adult 6 months ago and she laid her first clutch of eggs in August and before I cut back on temps and feeding.
Is the number of eggs she’ll lay determined at this point of gravidity? I expect she‘ll be laying in about another week or two. If the number of eggs is already set, I’ll feed her daily as she seems to want.

It may take a few cycles . @JoXie411 Imelda i believe has a condition . Very likely do to her prior keeping . @JoXie411 would be best to give more details on that .

Your already fighting hot humid temps . I believe that has as much impact as feeding . However that’s my belief , not fact !!.

 

[kinyonga]

Here's one view on it...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/03OctDonoghue.html
"Feeding during this time centers on maintenance of calorie intake, provision of nutrients to balance the calorie intake, and minimizing stress. My preference is to maintain or increase food intake in early gestation, to better support the female in late gestation. I switch from feeding every second day to every day. I try to balance prey offered between the usual routine fare (crickets, flies, superworms) and the less common (isopods, snails, mantids, grasshoppers). I lightly dust prey daily with our Walkabout Quantum Series dusts, but to avoid overdosage one must use a dust formulated to be used in this way. If most of the over-the-counter products were used daily, overdosage would result (the specific offending nutrients vary with different products)."

 

[JoXie411]

It may take a few cycles . @JoXie411 Imelda i believe has a condition . Very likely do to her prior keeping . @JoXie411 would be best to give more details on that .

Your already fighting hot humid temps . I believe that has as much impact as feeding . However that’s my belief , not fact !!.

Imelda has a reproductive problem that occurred due to poor husbandry. Her follicles never turn off so she’s always producing eggs even when she’s gravid.

so because of that my Feeding schedule is a little different from everybody else’s. Since she’s always making follicles I’m making up for it by giving my feeders higher quality food and I do I’ve her bigger pray to make up for the nutrients that she is losing due to egg making.

I feed her every three days sometimes two depending how good her last meal was. For example the other day I fed her a hawk moth and a hornworm, that’s all she got for maybe 4 days? I do give tiny flying pray like flys in between feeding to keep them active and something to do rather then just sit there and wait till next feeding

 

[kinyonga]

This might help...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/care-of-female-veiled.136736/

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Imelda has a reproductive problem that occurred due to poor husbandry. Her follicles never turn off so she’s always producing eggs even when she’s gravid.

so because of that my Feeding schedule is a little different from everybody else’s. Since she’s always making follicles I’m making up for it by giving my feeders higher quality food and I do I’ve her bigger pray to make up for the nutrients that she is losing due to egg making.

I feed her every three days sometimes two depending how good her last meal was. For example the other day I fed her a hawk moth and a hornworm, that’s all she got for maybe 4 days? I do give tiny flying pray like flys in between feeding to keep them active and something to do rather then just sit there and wait till next feeding

This would be similar to bigger feeders for my girls . It would be 2 bigger feeders , 5 small .

I make my gut load , organic - as much as I can grow , I add B pollen to most , herbs . I really started this with France, where I could not use Powdered supplements with her I had to make up lost nutrition . It’s a lot of work but very worth it .

 

[kinyonga]

Imelda has a reproductive problem that occurred due to poor husbandry. Her follicles never turn off so she’s always producing eggs even when she’s gravid.

so because of that my Feeding schedule is a little different from everybody else’s. Since she’s always making follicles I’m making up for it by giving my feeders higher quality food and I do I’ve her bigger pray to make up for the nutrients that she is losing due to egg making.

I feed her every three days sometimes two depending how good her last meal was. For example the other day I fed her a hawk moth and a hornworm, that’s all she got for maybe 4 days? I do give tiny flying pray like flys in between feeding to keep them active and something to do rather then just sit there and wait till next feeding

Have you tried cutting her back a couple of days after she lays a clutch? She would still lay a couple of clutches if you did but them should slow down or even stop.

 

[MissSkittles]

Great links! Am bookmarking those! I’ve been feeding my girls pretty much the same...2 larger feeders such as roaches along with 4-6 bsfl every other day. When I have bsfl that become flies, they each get 1 per day as a treat to hunt. Grumpy laid 33-34 eggs last time and I’m hoping there will be significantly less this time. I do expect it may take a couple of cycles for me to get things as ideal as possible. After a very brief trial of returning to Repashy with LoD at all feedings, we’re back to using that twice/month, Supervite twice/month and Supercal no D every feeding as the vet recommended.
Maybe I’m questioning if I should increase her nutrition just prior to expected laying because I’ve been listening more to Chameleon Breeder podcasts. Lol Yes, that’s it! I’m blaming it on Bill Strand for making me think about and question stuff.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Great links! Am bookmarking those! I’ve been feeding my girls pretty much the same...2 larger feeders such as roaches along with 4-6 bsfl every other day. When I have bsfl that become flies, they each get 1 per day as a treat to hunt. Grumpy laid 33-34 eggs last time and I’m hoping there will be significantly less this time. I do expect it may take a couple of cycles for me to get things as ideal as possible. After a very brief trial of returning to Repashy with LoD at all feedings, we’re back to using that twice/month, Supervite twice/month and Supercal no D every feeding as the vet recommended.
Maybe I’m questioning if I should increase her nutrition just prior to expected laying because I’ve been listening more to Chameleon Breeder podcasts. Lol Yes, that’s it! I’m blaming it on Bill Strand for making me think about and question stuff.

We use the Repashy low for every one except Frances when she was alive . We tried every powered supplement in every combo it was a no go . This is not the norm however , I’m not recommending this . In fact I think this is the first thread I have Spoken of not supplementing her in a normal manner . She saw vet every 3 month for an x-ray to insure bone density .

 

[kinyonga]

I wish I could give you a definite answer about increasing it much just before laying. I've usually increased it just one or two crickets. I still need to learn more about the follicle production....when they start to ovulate and what makes them do it. I can't find a definite enough answer to satisfy me to know what to do for sure...so it's been mostly trial and error...and I don't like recommending to others things I'm not sure about.

 

[MissSkittles]

I wish I could give you a definite answer about increasing it much just before laying. I've usually increased it just one or two crickets. I still need to learn more about the follicle production....when they start to ovulate and what makes them do it. I can't find a definite enough answer to satisfy me to know what to do for sure...so it's been mostly trial and error...and I don't like recommending to others things I'm not sure about.

I appreciate all input. Hopefully someone somewhere is researching this and other lacking areas of knowledge about chams. Perhaps I should go with the idea that our bodies generally guide us to what we need and feed her a few bsfl if she’s climbing down to her feeding spot when she sees me. Will see how it all goes for her all too soon.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

I appreciate all input. Hopefully someone somewhere is researching this and other lacking areas of knowledge about chams. Perhaps I should go with the idea that our bodies generally guide us to what we need and feed her a few bsfl if she’s climbing down to her feeding spot when she sees me. Will see how it all goes for her all too soon.

The girls think they starving all the time , that certainly pull on our heart strings .

 

[MissSkittles]

The girls think they starving all the time , that certainly pull on our heart strings .

Oh yes! When I first got Grumpy and hadn’t yet learned how much to feed, I asked the local exotic pet store and he said she’d stop eating when full. I was going thru dozens of crickets every week! She pretty much needed it though as she was too thin and a bit malnourished when I got her. Little eating machines!

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

Oh yes! When I first got Grumpy and hadn’t yet learned how much to feed, I asked the local exotic pet store and he said she’d stop eating when full. I was going thru dozens of crickets every week! She pretty much needed it though as she was too thin and a bit malnourished when I got her. Little eating machines!

Oh yes they are phoeb’s she would not stop eating if I allowed it . She’s a little petite girl . Her sista is double her size . My boys they will stop eating when full my girls nope .

 

[kinyonga]

@MissSkittles said..."Perhaps I should go with the idea that our bodies generally guide us to what we need and feed her a few bsfl if she’s climbing down to her feeding spot when she sees me"...I think if we let females guide themselves they will always eat too much in captivity. They are opportunists after all.

 

[MissSkittles]

Oddly enough, today is feeding day and Grumpy didn’t come down until I offered up the goods. She ate her usual. However, Stella who truly is a little ‘tree pig’ and I believe is starting her first receptive phase was reluctant to eat. Who knows what goes on in their minds.