Garlic, onions and other things...and parasites...

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
I knew some importers who fed garlic and other things to reptiles they imported to get rid of parasites...what does everyone think about this? Is it something we should try?
Previously, you said,
Years ago there was one importer I knew who gave garlic to newly imported WC lizards...said it helped with the immune system and with getting rid of parasites...but I don't know if it's true or not....and I don't know if he did it with the chameleons or not.

From: https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/nutrition/can-dogs-eat-garlic/
According to the Merck Veterinary Manual, garlic and other members of the allium family, including onions, contain thiosulfate, which is toxic to dogs but not to humans.
Several veterinarians have told us the same.

As to reptiles, http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html says, "Potential toxicity"

https://www.petmd.com/reptile/care/evr_rp_what-do-lizards-eat says, "Onions and garlic should be avoided."

What Can My Veiled Chameleon Eat?

Vegetables To Avoid
  • Avocado - Toxic
  • Chives - Toxic
  • Corn - Extremely high in phosphorus
  • Eggplants - Toxic
  • Garlic - Toxic
  • Leeks - In larger quantities can cause anemia and organ failure.
  • Mushrooms - Potentially toxic
  • Onions - Toxic
  • Rhubarb - Toxic
  • Spinach - High in oxalates
  • Soybeans - Causes hormonal imbalance.
  • Tomatoes - Very acidic

This could be one of those, "in large quantities" things, but IMO, why chance it?

The above is good enough for me. My chameleon isn't—and won't be—a guinea pig. YMMV. 🤓

 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Both of he things you quoted me as saying I did say...so what are you getting at?

Just because dogs can't eat garlic or onions (or grapes or chocolate for that matter) doesn't mean that other animals can't.
Same for dragons, etc.

On your list of veggie it says spinach is high in oxalates and yet we know at least some chameleons can eat pothos whichnismalsomhighnin oxalates.

I'd like to see some study on whether chameleons can and whether onions and garlic can kill some intestinal parasites.

I wouldn't likely risk feeding onions or garlic to npmy chameleons either unless it had been tried with success....although most of what I fed the chameleons in the beginning of my years of keeping them came from trial and error....there was no information then.

I was mostly hoping to know if someone had tried it and how it went. I've wondered ever since that importer told me about it in the first place.
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
Both of he things you quoted me as saying I did say...so what are you getting at?
The part I bolded. In the earlier post, you said you didn't know if it was true or not, or that it applied to chameleons.

Just because dogs can't eat garlic or onions (or grapes or chocolate for that matter) doesn't mean that other animals can't.
Same for dragons, etc.
Right. I included the first quote because it mentioned thiosulfate, which may have rung a bell for someone with regard to chameleons or reptiles, and because it included the link to the Merck Veterinary Manual for anyone who might wish to pursue information (about this subject or another) in that reference. I thought it was a good resource for bookmarking.

Then I continued with, "As to reptiles" with more specific links.
On your list of veggie it says spinach is high in oxalates and yet we know at least some chameleons can eat pothos whichnismalsomhighnin oxalates.
:confused: ??? OK, what are you getting at? Two of the links had lists of vegetables, and I was looking for garlic—not spinach or oxalates.

I'd like to see some study on whether chameleons can and whether onions and garlic can kill some intestinal parasites.
So would I ! 😁 I looked, but couldn't find any pertinent.
I wouldn't likely risk feeding onions or garlic to npmy chameleons either unless it had been tried with success....although most of what I fed the chameleons in the beginning of my years of keeping them came from trial and error....there was no information then.

I was mostly hoping to know if someone had tried it and how it went. I've wondered ever since that importer told me about it in the first place.
Thanks for elucidating. In your OP you asked for opinions, and if it's something we should try.
I looked around, and from what I found (and shared) it didn't look like something I'd want to try.

Are we good?
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Both of he things you quoted me as saying I did say...so what are you getting at?

Just because dogs can't eat garlic or onions (or grapes or chocolate for that matter) doesn't mean that other animals can't.
Same for dragons, etc.

On your list of veggie it says spinach is high in oxalates and yet we know at least some chameleons can eat pothos whichnismalsomhighnin oxalates.

I'd like to see some study on whether chameleons can and whether onions and garlic can kill some intestinal parasites.

I wouldn't likely risk feeding onions or garlic to npmy chameleons either unless it had been tried with success....although most of what I fed the chameleons in the beginning of my years of keeping them came from trial and error....there was no information then.

I was mostly hoping to know if someone had tried it and how it went. I've wondered ever since that importer told me about it in the first place.

I have used papaya seeds, all I can say is I didn't notice any negative effects. I personally know of someone else who's used them too. Haven't tried garlic or onion. I feel like at the right dose they'd be safe, garlic at least, but that's entirely me guessing. I mean, fish eat it with no problems 🤷‍♂️
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Almost any plant can be toxic in large amounts. Plants contain all kinds of potential negative nutrients. Labeling things as toxic or not can be frustrating... there are straight up toxic plants, there are also things that are very healthy in moderation and become toxic with too much. There are also 'toxins' that only affect certain animals. No one is saying to guinea pig their chameleon, but it is worth considering some of these for parasite treatment. Currently, many chameleons die even with medication, which often can make things worse.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Onions and garlic can cause anemia in dogs I wouldn't use them in a reptile with out reliable evidence that they are safe and effective. There are effective dewormers available.
I don't think anyone is advocating for feeding them to reptiles on a whim, just discussing. I mean, at this point it's kind of annoying that I even have to say that. Also while I agree, using dogs is a really poor example, as dogs and cats and many animals are negatively impacted by most of the plants veileds seem to eat with no issue. Yes of course they are different example, but just goes back to the point of being something up for discussion.

Worms wouldn't be my main concern, mostly things like coccidia.

And if anything, papaya seeds are probably the most worth trying.
 
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jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have used papaya seeds, all I can say is I didn't notice any negative effects. I personally know of someone else who's used them too. Haven't tried garlic or onion. I feel like at the right dose they'd be safe, garlic at least, but that's entirely me guessing. I mean, fish eat it with no problems 🤷‍♂️
Going back to this, guess it does kind of sound like I'm okay to try this. I'll go back and say it's probably a bad idea. Garlic was completely a guess based off other animals. Further reading about onions toxicity, even in birds, would make me think onions are best left out entirely as well.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Too much of any one thing can be toxic and sometimes even a combination of certain things can be toxic...but if there's a parasite that the normal parasite medications won't cure maybe there's something that's natural that will....and maybe we need to have a scientific proper study done to determine if there are other things that will work...just like we come up with new treatments for humans? I'm not saying for people to make a Guinea pig out of their "pet" chameleons. It's just my "scientific" mine poking out again I guess to think about things, etc.
Curiosity can be a good thing.....and sometimes a bad thing.
I might not have figured out how to stop veiled females from producing eggs years ago if I hadn't tried anything. I might not have realized that the chimney effect would make glass cages acceptable and aquariums possible to use sometimes for cages.
 

JacksJill

Chameleon Enthusiast
I only know it has a toxicity factor and I offered my opinion on whether I would consider it's use. I things like that have to be stated in these threads or you will have people trying to save a buck and start doing and over doing just that.
As you know I have tried ground papaya seeds in my gut load sparingly. I based my decision to try them on the study you posted. I do not feed the powder directly because the enzymes in papaya seed can be very irritating to the gut lining.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I only know it has a toxicity factor and I offered my opinion on whether I would consider it's use. I things like that have to be stated in these threads or you will have people trying to save a buck and start doing and over doing just that.
As you know I have tried ground papaya seeds in my gut load sparingly. I based my decision to try them on the study you posted. I do not feed the powder directly because the enzymes in papaya seed can be very irritating to the gut lining.

Fair enough!
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
...but if there's a parasite that the normal parasite medications won't cure maybe there's something that's natural that will....
Are there any parasites that can't be treated by known remedies?

I'm fine with proven-safe natural remedies; I take a few myself. Unfortunately, that's usually not where Western medicine turns first (Look how many decades it took to legalize medical cannabis, and research is still slow). It's harder to get studies done on natural remedies because they can't be patented, and medicine is a bu$ine$$.

Can natural substances be patented?
 
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