First veiled baby, need experienced advice!

[rivkahyanna]

Hi! This is my first post on this board and I'm hoping for some good advice. I recently bought a veiled chameleon from a customer (I work at a petstore) who didn't want it anymore. She is a female veiled chameleon, and though the customer claimed to have had her for several months, she's barely bigger than the hatchling we have at the store. Her limbs are straight and her coloration is good, but she is very small and I haven't seen her eat. She does move around her reptarium at night, though I have noticed some shaking when she climbs. Is all of this normal? I expect her to take a while to adjust to the new home, and her habitat is ideal for chameleons (or so my research says . . . all mesh enclosure, brand new heat and UV lamps, dusted crickets as well as fresh veggies every day and a mealworm or waxworm every couple of days). I mist her several times a day and have been taking her outside this week because it has been warm and humid and I thought she'd like that. Any opinions? Why is she so small? Could she have MBD?
Thanks!
-Rivkah

 

[dodolah]

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage construction (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and type of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
* Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[hawaiianice99]

pics would help.

 

[rivkahyanna]

Okay, here is all I can tell you

Thnks for the tips, here's what I can tell you. )

* Cage Type - all wire-mesh repitile habitat, 2' long, 1' wide, 3' tall
* Lighting - Repti-glow 5.0 UV 18" bulb, also 75 watt Zoo Med repti basking bulb placed at one end, 60 watt blue Repti-glow night light
* Temperature - Have Zoo Med thermometers, about 90 near the basking spot, 72 near the ground
* Humidity - I don't know my humidity levels, I do not have a hygrometer yet. I mist her cage several times a day and have been taking her outside since we have had warm wet weather for the past couple of days.
* Plants - No live plants, I'm not sure which kind would be the best. She has several thickly leafed plastic plants which I wash with vinegar and water every other day.
* Location - The cage is int he living room, about 8 feet from the cieling fan on a stand 4 feet from the ground. The room has moderate traffic and she is in teh corner away from most of the activity.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, allegedly 6 months old, I have had her for 4 days
* Handling - She has been handled twice, at initial cage cleaning and today for a few minutes for spot cleaning in cage.
* Feeding - I feed her small gut-loaded crickets (I feed them Flukers formula, the orange cubes), dusted with calcium and D3, 6 a day. Also freash veggies every day and a mealworm or waxworm every other day
* Supplements - I dust the crickets every day because she has not been recieving supplements and is very small for the age she is supposed to be.
* Watering - I mist several times a day, enough to ensure that the plants are beaded with water droplets. I have not yet seen her drink.
* Fecal Description - small black and white droppings, not parasite treatment.
* History - She has been misted and fed for the last several months, and had an old UV light which I replaced. No special attention . . . she was kept alive, butt he family who had her was bored with ehr and wanted her gone.
* Current Problem - She is small, cowers in the top corners of the enclosure, hisses at my husband (but not me) and does not eat or drink while we are watching. She trembled while climbing yesterday, though she was fine today.
I don't have a way to download pictures at the moment, but will as soon as I can replace my camera battery. She is a light green color with straight limbs, but is barely bigger than a hatchling though she is supposedly 6 months old.

-Rivkah

 

[Brad Ramsey]

A hatchling is about an inch long.
What is her actual length?
Here is a link to my site:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

-Brad

 

[dodolah]

Thnks for the tips, here's what I can tell you. )

* Cage Type - all wire-mesh repitile habitat, 2' long, 1' wide, 3' tall
* Lighting - Repti-glow 5.0 UV 18" bulb, also 75 watt Zoo Med repti basking bulb placed at one end, 60 watt blue Repti-glow night light
* Temperature - Have Zoo Med thermometers, about 90 near the basking spot, 72 near the ground
* Humidity - I don't know my humidity levels, I do not have a hygrometer yet. I mist her cage several times a day and have been taking her outside since we have had warm wet weather for the past couple of days.
* Plants - No live plants, I'm not sure which kind would be the best. She has several thickly leafed plastic plants which I wash with vinegar and water every other day.
* Location - The cage is int he living room, about 8 feet from the cieling fan on a stand 4 feet from the ground. The room has moderate traffic and she is in teh corner away from most of the activity.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, allegedly 6 months old, I have had her for 4 days
* Handling - She has been handled twice, at initial cage cleaning and today for a few minutes for spot cleaning in cage.
* Feeding - I feed her small gut-loaded crickets (I feed them Flukers formula, the orange cubes), dusted with calcium and D3, 6 a day. Also freash veggies every day and a mealworm or waxworm every other day
* Supplements - I dust the crickets every day because she has not been recieving supplements and is very small for the age she is supposed to be.
* Watering - I mist several times a day, enough to ensure that the plants are beaded with water droplets. I have not yet seen her drink.
* Fecal Description - small black and white droppings, not parasite treatment.
* History - She has been misted and fed for the last several months, and had an old UV light which I replaced. No special attention . . . she was kept alive, butt he family who had her was bored with ehr and wanted her gone.
* Current Problem - She is small, cowers in the top corners of the enclosure, hisses at my husband (but not me) and does not eat or drink while we are watching. She trembled while climbing yesterday, though she was fine today.
I don't have a way to download pictures at the moment, but will as soon as I can replace my camera battery. She is a light green color with straight limbs, but is barely bigger than a hatchling though she is supposedly 6 months old.

-Rivkah

i'll wait until you can post a picture.
If possible, can you also take pics of the whole enclosure.
as far as UVB light goes, I recommend this one instead of the reptiglo 5.0:

Make sure it's linear (long tube) not compact.

They benefit from 10 degree drop at night.
So, no night light required unless the temp goes below 60F.
Constant heat at night can prove detrimental to your chameleon.

 

[rivkahyanna]

Actual size

She is about two inches when she streches out, a bit less when she's curled, not including the tail. Will have pictures up soon, I'm going to borrow a camera today.
-Rivkah

 

[dodolah]

when taking pics of your cham, make sure to use the macro setting to avoid blurry pics.
There is no way a 6 months old has the size of 2 inches including tail.
6 days maybe.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

when taking pics of your cham, make sure to use the macro setting to avoid blurry pics.
There is no way a 6 months old has the size of 2 inches including tail.
6 days maybe.

Hate to argue with you but I have seen 4 and 5 month old veileds that look about 4 weeks old.
If they are kept too long with clutch mates and are competing for space and food, the weaker or less aggressive chameleons just don't grow.
I don't know if this is the case here or not, but it does happen.

Also ... she said: "not including tail"
-Brad

 

[dodolah]

Hate to argue with you but I have seen 4 and 5 month old veileds that look about 4 weeks old.
If they are kept too long with clutch mates and are competing for space and food, the weaker or less aggressive chameleons just don't grow.
I don't know if this is the case here or not, but it does happen.

Also ... she said: "not including tail"
-Brad

np
I misread it and didn't see that "including tail."
we'll just have to wait for the pics

 

[Fate X]

Thnks for the tips, here's what I can tell you. )

* Cage Type - all wire-mesh repitile habitat, 2' long, 1' wide, 3' tall
* Lighting - Repti-glow 5.0 UV 18" bulb, also 75 watt Zoo Med repti basking bulb placed at one end, 60 watt blue Repti-glow night light
* Temperature - Have Zoo Med thermometers, about 90 near the basking spot, 72 near the ground
* Humidity - I don't know my humidity levels, I do not have a hygrometer yet. I mist her cage several times a day and have been taking her outside since we have had warm wet weather for the past couple of days.
* Plants - No live plants, I'm not sure which kind would be the best. She has several thickly leafed plastic plants which I wash with vinegar and water every other day.
* Location - The cage is int he living room, about 8 feet from the cieling fan on a stand 4 feet from the ground. The room has moderate traffic and she is in teh corner away from most of the activity.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, female, allegedly 6 months old, I have had her for 4 days
* Handling - She has been handled twice, at initial cage cleaning and today for a few minutes for spot cleaning in cage.
* Feeding - I feed her small gut-loaded crickets (I feed them Flukers formula, the orange cubes), dusted with calcium and D3, 6 a day. Also freash veggies every day and a mealworm or waxworm every other day
* Supplements - I dust the crickets every day because she has not been recieving supplements and is very small for the age she is supposed to be.
* Watering - I mist several times a day, enough to ensure that the plants are beaded with water droplets. I have not yet seen her drink.
* Fecal Description - small black and white droppings, not parasite treatment.
* History - She has been misted and fed for the last several months, and had an old UV light which I replaced. No special attention . . . she was kept alive, butt he family who had her was bored with ehr and wanted her gone.
* Current Problem - She is small, cowers in the top corners of the enclosure, hisses at my husband (but not me) and does not eat or drink while we are watching. She trembled while climbing yesterday, though she was fine today.
I don't have a way to download pictures at the moment, but will as soon as I can replace my camera battery. She is a light green color with straight limbs, but is barely bigger than a hatchling though she is supposedly 6 months old.

-Rivkah

the cage is kinda big for one baby small chameleon so she might be confused ive seen this happen.try a smaller cage.as far as shaking goes maybe shes weak for some reason. you said you had her out in the heat and humid a chameleon that small could dehydrate if its to hot.its august and summer so it still gets hot.they gotta be misted too.
i mist mine in the morning ,afternoon then about 6-7pm before they go to sleep.i feed them in the afternoon and they always eat and are hungry,they eat very fast.in the morning when i mist them about half of them open the mouth to drink the spray the rest drink from the leaves.try putting 5 small crickets in her cage at a time and dont handle her at all because if shes not eating and theres no bowel movements then make sure her eyes dont go shut either.

 

[skeeta]

Hi rivkahyanna,

Did you say she moves around her enclosure at night? Are you using the 60 watt blue Repti-glow night light? That is unnecessary and could be disturbing her sleeping patterns (chams are very sensitive to broken sleep among about a million other things)

Also I noticed ...

"Feeding - I feed her small gut-loaded crickets (I feed them Flukers formula, the orange cubes), dusted with calcium and D3, 6 a day."

As the experts will tell you too much calcium with D3 is dangerous. Every day is probably too much
Daily dusting should be with straight calcium.

Probably wouldn't hurt to gut-load the crickets with fresh veggies as well as that orange jello!

Brads http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/ has all kinds of examples

Good luck and watch out when the growth spurt hits!

 

[rivkahyanna]

Still no pics, but soon.

Sorry not to have pics up yet, hopefully tomorrow night (still need to get a camera that will download). She has been alone in her enclosure for at least three months according to the previous owners. They have been feeding her crvkets with no supplements and nothing else. Could her growth be permanently stunted?

 

[rivkahyanna]

Will do )

I don't have a smaller cage, but kept her indoors yesterday and today and will cut back on the D3, also will turn off the night lamp tonight to see how she does. I called the exotic vet in my town and he suggested that I put baby food on the leaves for her. Has anyone tried that/heard that advice?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Is she eating?
No baby food ... (I always hate that suggestion) ...
Throw that night light away! Chameleons need total darkness to sleep well at night.
They also need cooler night time temps, and having a lamp on at night makes it too warm.

-Brad

 

[rivkahyanna]

Night light is gone!

Okay, I removed the night light and moved her cage to the bedroom where there is very little traffic. I think she's eating . . . she won't do it while I'm watching her, but the crickets are decreasing and the worms are dissapearing (in a steep glass dish, they shouldn't be able to get out on their own). She isn't thin or emaciated and her limbs are straight, so I assume she is getting nourishment, though I don't think enough. She is my first chameleon and I wish I knew more from experience, I'm trying to do everything correctly but they are very delicate and there are so many potential mistakes. . . thanks to everyone responding, I appreciate it!!!

 

[dodolah]

Sorry not to have pics up yet, hopefully tomorrow night (still need to get a camera that will download). She has been alone in her enclosure for at least three months according to the previous owners. They have been feeding her crvkets with no supplements and nothing else. Could her growth be permanently stunted?

Hearing from you about how they care for her kinda hints me that most likely the owner is lying about her age.

 

[rivkahyanna]

Could be.

I am not certain about her age . . . the guy I got her from said at first that he had had her for a couple of months, but his wife said they've had her for five months. They kept her in thier 3 year-old son't bedroom and had the UV light on all the time, with basking during the day. The FLukers cubes for the crickets were at the bottom of the cage and there were a few large crickets in the cage, which I removed because she's not very big. There were paper towels in the bottom of the enclosure, which I replaced with coconut bark and reptile moss I've read conflicting things about substrates, and settled on the bark and moss because it looks more natural and would be softer if she falls. Was that a good idea?

 

[dodolah]

I am not certain about her age . . . the guy I got her from said at first that he had had her for a couple of months, but his wife said they've had her for five months. They kept her in thier 3 year-old son't bedroom and had the UV light on all the time, with basking during the day. The FLukers cubes for the crickets were at the bottom of the cage and there were a few large crickets in the cage, which I removed because she's not very big. There were paper towels in the bottom of the enclosure, which I replaced with coconut bark and reptile moss I've read conflicting things about substrates, and settled on the bark and moss because it looks more natural and would be softer if she falls. Was that a good idea?

no substrate is the best substrate.