Female panther chameleon not eating and upside down, need help please

[aubslemond]

Hi everyone, I’m new to chameleonforums and created my account to get some input since I’m worried for my girl. I have a female panther chameleon about a year old. I’ve only had her for a few months and she laid her first clutch of eggs exactly one month ago of 24 eggs. She recovered nicely and ate and drank plenty but had recently not been feeding. We made the switch to Dubai roaches and she would eat them good but for some reason hasn’t the last 5 days. She had only eaten a few meal worms and yesterday I noticed she was hanging upside down or leaning very heavily like she couldn’t hold herself up. I gave her a warm bath with pedialyte and some vitamins and she perked up and drank a bunch of water but came back to check two hours later and is still leaning. Any ideas of what’s wrong. Could she possibly still have eggs in her?

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

Please post some recent pictures of her.

 

[aubslemond]

Welcome to the forum!

Please post some recent pictures of her.

This is her upside down all funny looking and after I gave her a bath. I’ve also noticed even though she hasn’t eaten she still looks kind of chubby.

 

[kinyonga]

Has she been this chubby since she laid the last clutch of eggs? How thin was she after she laid the last clutch? Do you have any photos of her right after she laid them?

How much do you feed her a week?

Is the lay bin still in her cage?

 

[aubslemond]

Has she been this chubby since she laid the last clutch of eggs? How thin was she after she laid the last clutch? Do you have any photos of her right after she laid them?

How much do you feed her a week?

Is the lay bin still in her cage?

This is her the after laying her eggs and two days after. It was her first clutch and she seemed to have a little bit of issues, she dug for quite a few days, laid a few eggs on top of the dirt, laid two from on top of a branch, and then the next day dug to the bottom and laid 18. I left the bucket in there for a few more days until she seemed back to normal and was planning on putting it back once I saw her behavior and colors look the same as the signs I saw the first time but didn’t think it would only be a month and she isn’t acting the same. She is very pale as well now. She seemed to be pretty thick while pregnant and lost the weight a week before laying and only seemed slightly thinner but even without eating too much she seems to have a chubby chin and her belly is round. I’m just now switching to Dubai roaches as the staple since I can have a colony of them easier and I’ve heard the nutrients are better so I’m still figuring out the right amount to feed for her and my other male chameleon. The most she has eaten is 4 of them within 15 minutes last week, and then after that only one or two and now is looking how she is right now not eating rlly at all. I was planning on getting some crickets for her tomorrow since I know she likes those and see if that makes a difference in her decision to eat.

 

[kinyonga]

I'm suspecting that she is eggbound and needs to see a vet ASAP...very soon...or you will likely loose her. Sorry to have to tell you that.

She should only be getting 3 to 5 large crickets every second or third day (or equal calories from other insects) IMHO. This should help her to produce less eggs. U may want to lower her basking temperature to the mid to low 80's for now.

 

[Coop]

This might seem weird, but to me in the third pic where you are holding her, her front legs look swollen. The same thing happened as Flower’s infection progressed. I don’t know if this means something, but it is something i noticed between this Cham and Flower.

 

[aubslemond]

This might seem weird, but to me in the third pic where you are holding her, her front legs look swollen. The same thing happened as Flower’s infection progressed. I don’t know if this means something, but it is something i noticed between this Cham and Flower.

Thanks, I think it looks like that though in that picture because she was moving so her arm looks wider/swollen haha

 

[aubslemond]

I'm suspecting that she is eggbound and needs to see a vet ASAP...very soon...or you will likely loose her. Sorry to have to tell you that.

She should only be getting 3 to 5 large crickets every second or third day (or equal calories from other insects) IMHO. This should help her to produce less eggs. U may want to lower her basking temperature to the mid to low 80's for now.

That’s so odd considering she just laid a clutch a month ago and seemed healthy for that whole month up until now. She has her laying bin in there now.

 

[kinyonga]

It looks to me like she never laid all of her clutch a month ago....which is why I'm thinking she's eggbound. She never got thin after the last batch was laid looking at the pictures you posted and said were right after she laid. Another option is that you've been over feeding her for a long time and that's why she didn't ly the last clutch properly...dropped eggs, etc. The only other option I can think of is that she ha reproductive issue or infection that is making her look the fat right after she laid.

As for her seeming to be healthy since the last clutch was laid...they can sometimes go on for quite a while after laying part of a clutch before they crash.

 

[aubslemond]

That’s so odd considering she just laid a clutch a month ago and seemed healthy for that whole month up until now. She has her laying bin in there now.

I'm suspecting that she is eggbound and needs to see a vet ASAP...very soon...or you will likely loose her. Sorry to have to tell you that.

She should only be getting 3 to 5 large crickets every second or third day (or equal calories from other insects) IMHO. This should help her to produce less eggs. U may want to lower her basking temperature to the mid to low 80's for now.

oh my, it also might be helpful to mention that her clutch was produced after breeding. Not just her producing eggs on her own.

 

[aubslemond]

It looks to me like she never lid all of her clutch a month ago....which is why I'm thinking she's eggbound. She never got thin after the last batch was laid looking at the pictures you posted and said were right after she laid. Another option is that you've been over feeding her for a long time and that's why she didn't ly the last clutch properly...dropped eggs, etc. The only other option I can think of is that she ha reproductive issue or infection that is making her look the fat right after she laid.

As for her seeming to be healthy since the last clutch was laid...they can sometimes go on for quite a while after laying part of a clutch before they crash.

Dang... what a bummer if this is the case I really hope it’s not but that makes sense. What could a vet really do to solve this if that’s the issue? Thank you for your help.

 

[kinyonga]

I don't know if that matters or not. There's not much info on it.

 

[aubslemond]

I don't know if that matters or not. There's not much info on it.

Yeah, I’m glad I created this account and wish I had done it sooner bc there really isn’t that much information no matter how much I look on a lot matters dealing with panthers, or it all varies, I guess the best information is gained through experience but it sucks to have to learn the hard way

 

[kinyonga]

This forum is the best place to get good information IMHO because there are lots of people here who have done well keeping, breeding, raising chameleons...especially panthers, veiled chameleons, jacksons and a few others.

 

[Dbash44]

@aubslemond

I agree with kinyonga, she might still have eggs. She looks quite large, as I mentioned in the other thread.

If it were my cham I'd give her a proper lay bin and see if that helps over the next few days. Has she been searching her enclosure endlessly, trying to crawl out of the corners or digging in the bottom recently?

I would also get her to a vet also, but beware, handling her too much or moving her too much may make things worse so I would try the above suggestion first.

As far as your supplentation goes, make sure she has calcium with no d3 at every feeding, d3 twice a month and multivitamin twice a month.
Calcium is very important for chams, especially gravid females which you probably know.

I suggest also to get a t5 uvb bulb. D3 is very important for properly calcified eggs, too. Not sure if this has contributed to her possibly being egg bound. You mentioned the one you had went out which makes me wonder how old it is or if it was a bad bulb. Now she doesn't have one.

Your basking spot for her is way too hot. I would get a cooler bulb and shoot for somewhere close to 85 Fahrenheit.

How much water are you using during mistings? For how long?

I would also get more plants, preferably ones with more cover so she has places to hide. That being said, can we see a picture of your set up?

 

[Dbash44]

@aubslemond Also more pics of her without a towel around her and from the side and top would help us deduce what may be going on with her. Assuming there's possibly something else going on.

edit: Sorry you did this, didn't see that previously

 

[aubslemond]

@aubslemond

I agree with kinyonga, she might still have eggs. She looks quite large, as I mentioned in the other thread.

If it were my cham I'd give her a proper lay bin and see if that helps over the next few days. Has she been searching her enclosure endlessly, trying to crawl out of the corners or digging in the bottom recently?

I would also get her to a vet also, but beware, handling her too much or moving her too much may make things worse so I would try the above suggestion first.

As far as your supplentation goes, make sure she has calcium with no d3 at every feeding, d3 twice a month and multivitamin twice a month.
Calcium is very important for chams, especially gravid females which you probably know.

I suggest also to get a t5 uvb bulb. D3 is very important for properly calcified eggs, too. Not sure if this has contributed to her possibly being egg bound. You mentioned the one you had went out which makes me wonder how old it is or if it was a bad bulb. Now she doesn't have one.

Your basking spot for her is way too hot. I would get a cooler bulb and shoot for somewhere close to 85 Fahrenheit.

How much water are you using during mistings? For how long?

I would also get more plants, preferably ones with more cover so she has places to hide. That being said, can we see a picture of your set up?

She has fake plants as well I had more live ones but they attracted gnats and would rot and so I got her some nice fake ones. I’ll be able to send a picture of her set up and get her the proper lighting in the morning. And no she has not been restless or crawling around her cage or else I would have put the bin in sooner, I had left the bin in for a few days after she laid just in case but she turned back to her normal colors so I wasn’t concerned. If I had more room I would get her a larger cage so I could keep a bin in there year long and not have to worry about taking in and out. Might try to find a spot to do that anyway.
Also is there a way I can delete the other thread I created to?

 

[Dbash44]

She has fake plants as well I had more live ones but they attracted gnats and would rot and so I got her some nice fake ones. I’ll be able to send a picture of her set up and get her the proper lighting in the morning. And no she has not been restless or crawling around her cage or else I would have put the bin in sooner, I had left the bin in for a few days after she laid just in case but she turned back to her normal colors so I wasn’t concerned. If I had more room I would get her a larger cage so I could keep a bin in there year long and not have to worry about taking in and out. Might try to find a spot to do that anyway.
Also is there a way I can delete the other thread I created to?

You can add things to soil to make sure they don't get over watered. Gnats, fruitflies and root rot are all part of a plant that has too much water. I believe perlite or water crystals help with this. Try getting plants thta will do better in a constantly moist soil. A number are picky and want a dry period between waterings.
Only reason I'm suggesting this is because they will have positive benefits for your chameleon.

You could always DIY a breeding box. Use some corrugated plastic sheeting and glue it together. Just make it the appropriate size for your enclosure. Just make sure to clean it often so it doesn't become nasty. Also drainage holes on the bottom would help if you find it necessary. I know Dragon Strand made a laying bin at one time that acted as a stand for the cage. Don't know if Bill still makes them, but I have one and it's really nice.

 

[Dbash44]

Unfortunately there's not. We have to wait for @Brad to fix it. I think we got it for now, though