Female Care Revolution

[TheLivingLegend]

Eggbinding is a serious problem with new cham owners because they never learn about laying bins after hours of googling care sheets. I come to address this issue, and turn to the veterans to attack it. Someone make a good care sheet that mentions laying bins for females that comes up on google and yahoo when you search for panther care guides. This MUST be done! Thousands of female cham lives depend on this. Don't let the lives of female chams that ended because of this go in vain! Make 2012 the year the major death toll ended! My reptile vet said you wouldn't believe how many eggbound chams he deals with because the new owners never learned about laying bins. BRING THIS TO AN END!!

R.I.P.
Fraulein
2/12 - 9/23/12
</3

 

[Olimpia]

This is an excellent blog on the care of females if you want to reduce egg production:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

This is an excellent thread on making laying bins:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/

All of this information and more will be available really soon on the new resources the forum is making for all users, which should make finding specific information needed much easier.

 

[HolyToledo]

First, sorry about your loss of your little girl.

Second, welcome to the forum. I have been unable to get online for 2 weeks and have missed this forum more than anything else.

Third, I don't know where you are from or how you did your search, etc. But, I just did a google search for "female chameleon care" and found two articles specific to raising female panthers. Bamboo Zoo has an excellent article that includes laying bin info but, you are right. The other site did not have bin info in their basic care sheet so I sent them a comment asking them to edit and add that for you.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

First, sorry about your loss of your little girl.

Second, welcome to the forum. I have been unable to get online for 2 weeks and have missed this forum more than anything else.

Third, I don't know where you are from or how you did your search, etc. But, I just did a google search for "female chameleon care" and found two articles specific to raising female panthers. Bamboo Zoo has an excellent article that includes laying bin info but, you are right. The other site did not have bin info in their basic care sheet so I sent them a comment asking them to edit and add that for you.

Thanks m8, I never included the word female when I googled care guides. Probably along with many others. Never even knew they lay eggs without a mate until 2 weeks ago. Even asked the reptile store I get my feeders from a billion questions.

 

[AngieL]

This is an excellent blog on the care of females if you want to reduce egg production:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

This is an excellent thread on making laying bins:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/

All of this information and more will be available really soon on the new resources the forum is making for all users, which should make finding specific information needed much easier.

These are both great sources and so is this https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

I had learned about egg laying before I got my girl but not to the extent that I now know. I always try to link people to these blogs and care sheets when they have a female, or find out their male is actually a girl etc. But at the end of the day, joe blogs buys a cham, thinks it's a boy or doesn't realise that girls lay eggs on their own and a few months later the poor thing is egg bound.

In a perfect world, people would join the forum before they buy a cham and learn all there is to know and then decide if it's possible for them. Vets will tell you about egg laying, forum members will tell you but nobody can say that everyone who has a cham looks into it properly, there lies the problem. i don't think anyone can stop people from being careless on the research side or stop pet shops from dishing out bad advice. This forum is the only place I have found to have knowledgable friendly folks with the right info. Also, sometimes people don't label the posts very well and so they don't come to the attention of the ones who can help.

EDIT: I would just like to add that the post you replied to yesterday is not conclusive to egg binding. That particular female had not been over fed (although the temps were unknown) and the symptoms could have been MBD considering the poor thing had no supplements. I'm not saying she didn't have eggs, just that eggs are not necesarily the problem there

 

[HolyToledo]

Hopefully, you will get another cham and stay here on the forum for your care info.

Use caution with info from pet stores. There are some informed people out there that care about the animals but most just pass on bad/inadequate info cuz it's their job not because they really know what they are talking about.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Hopefully, you will get another cham and stay here on the forum for your care info.

Use caution with info from pet stores. There are some informed people out there that care about the animals but most just pass on bad/inadequate info cuz it's their job not because they really know what they are talking about.

I adopted a water dragon from petsfart and told the girl he's my first reptile, didnt even tell me about a uvb along with many other things, Wow! Definitely bonked that one right on the head. He was around a few months until I saw an ambilobe at the reptile store I get my feeders from. I do plan on getting a male nosy be or nosy faly.

 

[Kate]

I adopted a water dragon from petsfart and told the girl he's my first reptile, didnt even tell me about a uvb along with many other things, Wow! Definitely bonked that one right on the head. He was around a few months until I saw an ambilobe at the reptile store I get my feeders from. I do plan on getting a male nosy be or nosy faly.

Had to laugh at your typo- petsfart. Kind of fitting don't you think?

 

[Olimpia]

Hopefully, you will get another cham and stay here on the forum for your care info.

Use caution with info from pet stores. There are some informed people out there that care about the animals but most just pass on bad/inadequate info cuz it's their job not because they really know what they are talking about.

Tell me about it! I work at a pet store and, as a biologist and chameleon keeper, I am pretty competent in giving accurate advice about most of the reptiles we keep. One co-worker is my boyfriend and fellow-reptile lover and the other is another ecology student at another local college. So the three of us are pretty capable. BUT, the fourth guy.... he's a salesman, a BSer, and that's about it.

Unfortunately, there are usually more of those than there are of us. That's why it's imperative that when you look for info you look in several different sources. Not just what the pet store tells you, but a book as well, and several websites, perhaps a forum, etc. It's the only way of forming a well-educated opinion on the best way to care for anything.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

These are both great sources and so is this https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/jannb/345-egg-laying-laying-bin.html

I had learned about egg laying before I got my girl but not to the extent that I now know. I always try to link people to these blogs and care sheets when they have a female, or find out their male is actually a girl etc. But at the end of the day, joe blogs buys a cham, thinks it's a boy or doesn't realise that girls lay eggs on their own and a few months later the poor thing is egg bound.

In a perfect world, people would join the forum before they buy a cham and learn all there is to know and then decide if it's possible for them. Vets will tell you about egg laying, forum members will tell you but nobody can say that everyone who has a cham looks into it properly, there lies the problem. i don't think anyone can stop people from being careless on the research side or stop pet shops from dishing out bad advice. This forum is the only place I have found to have knowledgable friendly folks with the right info. Also, sometimes people don't label the posts very well and so they don't come to the attention of the ones who can help.

EDIT: I would just like to add that the post you replied to yesterday is not conclusive to egg binding. That particular female had not been over fed (although the temps were unknown) and the symptoms could have been MBD considering the poor thing had no supplements. I'm not saying she didn't have eggs, just that eggs are not necesarily the problem there

Thank your for the links. His 7 month old cham is doing what mine started doing, stopped eating, a sign of egg laying time. Getting lethargic, a sign shes isnt in top shape. Maybe a mix of both.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Yup, I was blown away. Funny how some people can do something every day for a living and learn nothing about it over the years. DUUHHHHH

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

I'll give you a preview. This is the egg-laying and care of females section that is included on the panther and veiled caresheets in the new section.

Chameleons do not need to be mated or even have seen a male to develop eggs. Like chickens they will lay infertile clutches of eggs periodically. Even if you only have a single female chameleon you've had since she was a baby it will be critical to provide her it's a place to lay eggs because egg binding (being unable to lay eggs) is fatal. Panther chameleons can start to develop eggs as early as 6-7 months of age. It is highly recommended to not breed your chameleon until the female is at least a year of age so she is mature and can dedicate calcium stores to eggs instead of stripping it from her own growing bones. A gravid female will often display a darker body color with pink or orange patches. A clutch can contain on average 20-70 eggs and fertile or infertile makes no difference on size of clutch or whether or not the female will have trouble laying them. Females can lay 1-3 clutches per year on average, during any season. Egg laying is a big strain on the females' body and heavy breeding can decrease life span. Extra calcium should be given to gravid females to keep up with the need of making eggshells. A female that is unable to lay her eggs for environmental, nutritional or medical reasons causes a serious condition of egg-binding, or being eggbound. This is a medical emergency and will be fatal if not treated. Over feeding can cause cause complications with egg laying and larger clutch sizes, making them more prone to becoming eggbound.

A female over 6 months of age should always have a laying bin available. The laying bin should be at least 16x16x16" with depth being crucial. The egg laying substrate should be either washed playsand or a mixture of washed playsand and organic soil moistened so that a tunnel retains its shape and does not collapse. There should be one or several branches going into the laying bin so that the female can crawl in and out as desired. A female about to lay eggs will often become restless, pace her cage and may decrease or stop eating in the week before. Once a female enters the laying bin she may dig several test holes before chosing to lay eggs. They dig head first to make the tunnel and then back into the tunnel to lay their eggs. It is absolutely critical to give a chameleon complete privacy while she is in the laying bin. If she is disturbed she may abandon her tunnel and could be become eggbound if she does not feel she has the privacy to dig another. The cage may need to be wrapped with a sheet or towel with only a peep hole to keep disruptions out of sight. It can take several hours up to several days to lay eggs. A female that is weak, very uncomfortable, or refuses to use a laying bin may need veterinary assistance immediately. After a female lays eggs is it is very important to give her at least a week of minimal stress, increased hydration and calcium-rich food to recuperate.

The links that have been posted on this thread are also included on them already as well. I am open to suggestions if anyone has any.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

This is an excellent blog on the care of females if you want to reduce egg production:
http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

This is an excellent thread on making laying bins:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/laying-bin-set-up-educational-video-77225/

All of this information and more will be available really soon on the new resources the forum is making for all users, which should make finding specific information needed much easier.

Awesome, with so many topics covered, almost any random question someone could search online will most likely lead them here. Thank you for the links!

 

[MollyT]

I did a lot of research before I got my chameleon, not just on here, but on many sites. Egg laying was one of the first things I read, after the lighting and humidity. I don't think the problem is not enough info on any subject, rather petstores and breeders selling these beautiful but fragile animals without caring whether or not the new owner knows how to keep it alive. This is just my opinion.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

I did a lot of research before I got my chameleon, not just on here, but on many sites. Egg laying was one of the first things I read, after the lighting and humidity. I don't think the problem is not enough info on any subject, rather petstores and breeders selling these beautiful but fragile animals without caring whether or not the new owner knows how to keep it alive. This is just my opinion.

You are absolutely right about the stores caring less about the owner knowing what they need to. Glad you came across laying bins for your girl, the problem is getting the right info, and all of it, easily when your searching online for it. For some reason when it comes to chams, you have almost nowhere to turn but here. I bought books which were nearly useless, read countless care sheets, none of which mentioned laying bins for females when I googled "Panther Chameleon Care" sheets, guides, etc.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

A friend of mine owned 2 veileds. He bought books and read info online, the poor things didnt even last a month. Didnt know a lot of the basics he needed to : (

 

[Calypso]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I had a similar experience with my female veiled, but low and behold there was torsion in her oviduct possibly from scarring due to her last clutch. The vet said there really wasn't much I could have done as something was bound to happen eventually either this clutch or the next. Try not to beat yourself up about it if you did like me.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I had a similar experience with my female veiled, but low and behold there was torsion in her oviduct possibly from scarring due to her last clutch. The vet said there really wasn't much I could have done as something was bound to happen eventually either this clutch or the next. Try not to beat yourself up about it if you did like me.

Yea, my stupidity basically cost her her life.

 

[Calypso]

Are you sure? Did you get a autopsy? If all it was was an improper lay bin, there was probably more to it than that. If your cham needed to lay her eggs she was going to go it, good lay bin or not. Of course it could discourage laying but it shouldn't kill her.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Are you sure? Did you get a autopsy? If all it was was an improper lay bin, there was probably more to it than that. If your cham needed to lay her eggs she was going to go it, good lay bin or not. Of course it could discourage laying but it shouldn't kill her.

Eggbinding kills many chams. She was on the ground a lot a couple months ago, didnt have a laying bin for her or her cage covered til 3 days before she died. Every time I saw her on the ground she saw me and went back up it.