feeder variety

[lysinlight87]

Hi,

I've seen a few posts where people have stated that 1 feeder shouldn't make up more than 40% of your chams diet but my veiled is a difficult eater. At the moment he is fed 1 adult locust (jumping legs removed) & 7ish 1.5 inch silkworms at each feed. The locusts are mostly gutloaded with kale (the locusts also seem to be picky) & a dry mix. The silkies get mulberry chow.

Is it a problem that his diet is 50:50? He won't eat crickets, mealies or dubias (although I'm trying him again on dubias soon), he loves waxworms & morios/supers but they are less than ideal. He loves butterworms but they are only available for a short period each year. I'm running out of options.

Will it harm him to live on a diet only of locusts & silkies?

 

[sandrachameleon]

They can survive on a limited diet, but as you are aware that's not ideal.

If you start to gutload both the locust and the silkworms with more variety, it will help alleviate concerns about limited prey choice.
Too much kale is not a good thing. Try to mix up what the locust eat.
Silkworms can also eat dandelion leaves, grape vine leaves, even things like shaved carrot and rocket.

Dont be afraid to add morio worms now and the (they can be gutloaded too) as well as those butterworms when you can. Skip the waxworms.

Have you tried terrestrial isopods? Indian walking sticks? Termites? Cultured blue bottle flies? Snails?

 

[carol5208]

They can survive on a limited diet, but as you are aware that's not ideal.

If you start to gutload both the locust and the silkworms with more variety, it will help alleviate concerns about limited prey choice.
Too much kale is not a good thing. Try to mix up what the locust eat.
Silkworms can also eat dandelion leaves, grape vine leaves, even things like shaved carrot and rocket.

Dont be afraid to add morio worms now and the (they can be gutloaded too) as well as those butterworms when you can. Skip the waxworms.

Have you tried terrestrial isopods? Indian walking sticks? Termites? Cultured blue bottle flies? Snails?

Sandra, snails as in the ones with the hard round shells? I have them all over my yard but have always been afraid my chameleons will choke on them. Also, do they carry parasites? On another note, I ran out of silkchow and my neighbors mulberry bush died! I tried the carrots like you said and the the silks did eat it! I bought dandelion today but they were soso on eating that! lol. thanks for the tips!!! Chow is coming tomorrow!!!

 

[sandrachameleon]

Sandra, snails as in the ones with the hard round shells? I have them all over my yard but have always been afraid my chameleons will choke on them. Also, do they carry parasites?

Ya wild caught snails can pass along parasites. Best to breed your own, especially if you're going to offer very often. They are more delicate than they seem - when a cham chomps down on them they smash easily. The shell is rich calcium source.

These are the ones mine eat (scroll to bottom for photos)
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/133-snails.html


glad the carrot worked to hold them over

 

[lysinlight87]

Have you tried terrestrial isopods? Indian walking sticks? Termites? Cultured blue bottle flies? Snails?

I'm not sure on the availability of these in the UK but I'll do some research. I think the Rep centre occasionally has blue bottles. I have a suspicion that indian walking sticks are sold as pets rather than feeders lol I've decided against WC snails & woodlice. I know I could catch some & breed them to eliminate parasites, but I don't want to start a breeding project. Hopefully I can find some commercially available!

 

[laurie]

I'm not sure on the availability of these in the UK but I'll do some research. I think the Rep centre occasionally has blue bottles. I have a suspicion that indian walking sticks are sold as pets rather than feeders lol I've decided against WC snails & woodlice. I know I could catch some & breed them to eliminate parasites, but I don't want to start a breeding project. Hopefully I can find some commercially available!

Well the more varied the diet the better, but some of mine get very little in the way of variety. I am trying to get a horn worm breeding project going so I will have winter variety. Right now I have chams that will not eat dubia or superworms, so that leaves crickets.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I'm not sure on the availability of these in the UK but I'll do some research. I think the Rep centre occasionally has blue bottles. I have a suspicion that indian walking sticks are sold as pets rather than feeders lol I've decided against WC snails & woodlice. I know I could catch some & breed them to eliminate parasites, but I don't want to start a breeding project. Hopefully I can find some commercially available!

If you find someone else who breed walking sticks, maybe they will sell you cheap the "broken" ones that are not suiteable as pet quality (bad sheds / missing legs, that sort of thing).

 

[nightanole]

Well the more varied the diet the better, but some of mine get very little in the way of variety. I am trying to get a horn worm breeding project going so I will have winter variety. Right now I have chams that will not eat dubia or superworms, so that leaves crickets.

I was thinking of just cycling the gut load. I know the rule of thumb is at least 3 feeders. Still when you are gut loading all 3 feeder the same, combined with several feeders are more "candy/snack", i wonder how much the variety helps. It would make more sense if the 3 insects couldnt eat each others gut load, and thats why you have 3. AKA dubia would be ill if they ate the cricket gut load.

 

[lysinlight87]

I found somewhere that sells blue bottles & woodlice, so I think I'll start with that. I also found somewhere that sells slugs- would they make a good feeder?

 

[sandrachameleon]

I found somewhere that sells blue bottles & woodlice, so I think I'll start with that. I also found somewhere that sells slugs- would they make a good feeder?

GREAT! those will make excellent additions. I think you'll find the woodlice (you got the larger ones, not tropical, right? tropicals are quite small) become a favourite of your chams. Also high calcium and easy gutload!
Flies are also attractive to chams.

I personally avoid slugs. Higher pararsite risk, or so I've read. Also Slugs create more "slime" than snails, and they can carry/pass meningitis causing worms.

 

[sandrachameleon]

I know the rule of thumb is at least 3 feeders.

Around my circles, the Rule of thumb is five choices, minimally.

BTW how each bug processes what you feed it can be different.

 

[lysinlight87]

well, I tried dubias again & they were firmly rejected. I still plan to try blue bottles & woodlice. But my question is, what if he just down-right refuses other feeders? There's only so much I can do, does it make me a bad owner if he will only eat 3 different feeders?

He will only eat 1 locust at each feeding so I give him an adult- gutloaded with kale, apple, courgette, dandelion or carrot (they'll mostly ignore the carrot & apple). He then eats his silkies (gutloaded with mulberry chow- I will try them on rocket) & would eat a morio if I offered. I don't hold out much hope that he will like woodlice, but I will try.

I just don't want people to think I haven't tried- he's just so fussy.

 

[pssh]

He wont starve himself. If you just stop feeding him he will eventually take whatever you offer him.

 

[nightanole]

have you tried upside down dubia? Even my picky ones will eat them if they are upside down and wiggling.

 

[lysinlight87]

I tried an upsidedown dubia, but Neelix just wasn't interested. My tree frog thought they were great lol

I wouldn't want to hold back his food because he's not addicted to unhealthy feeders, but I am too soft on him...

 

[pssh]

Have you tried white dubia? I can always get a chameleon to eat them if they are white.

 

[lysinlight87]

I'll have to give it a go

 

[sandrachameleon]

He wont starve himself. If you just stop feeding him he will eventually take whatever you offer him.

Have you tried white dubia? I can always get a chameleon to eat them if they are white.

I agree with both statements.

 

[lysinlight87]

I agree with both statements.

ok, this week I'm over-run with silkworms so I'm feeding them off to my all my animals. Next week I'll do it- I'll hold out for 3 or 4 days & then try to get him to eat other stuff. My will power vs that of an adolescent veiled... I should take odds lol ...but seriously, I'll give it a go.

 

[Miss Lily]

I could never get Tommy to eat anything other than locusts, silkworms and the odd waxworm. In the two years I had him he only ever ate 1 cricket for me. I have always gutloaded as well as I can, and he got to 4 years old plus. He wouldn't touch any fruit and veg either, whereas Amy would eat everything I offered her, the greedy moo!