Feeder insects

[valo7184]

Hello,

Im considering using crickets, and dubia roaches as primary sources and Phoenix worms as a supplemental. Would cricket crack, mixed with some water (to form a paste) be a good food source for the crickets and roaches? I will also feed them bug burger too. How long does cricket crack and the bug burger last in their enclosure before it goes bad? I'm looking for something that will last over a four day weekend if I'm out of town. Also, how long can each those three insects live with minimal food and water intake?

 

[bobcochran]

4 days is a long time to go without fresh food. Is this going to occur on a regular basis? If not, I would think your best bet would be fresh vegetables, especially whole carrots, maybe large chunks of sweet potato. You should lower the temps in the bug boxes a bit too.

 

[valo7184]

4 days is a long time to go without fresh food. Is this going to occur on a regular basis? If not, I would think your best bet would be fresh vegetables, especially whole carrots, maybe large chunks of sweet potato. You should lower the temps in the bug boxes a bit too.

Hey Bob,

This will be quite regular. I have multiple feeders that will be set up for the chameleon to get his food while I'm gone and to avoid insects roaming freely inside the cage. So my only issue is keeping food for the actual feeder insects. While I'm home, I will be feeding fresh vegetables to the feeders and when I'm not home, it will be the cricket crack and bug burger. Are those two food items perishable within a four day period, or do they last awhile before becoming an issue with mold or bacteria? Kind of a hard question to answer, but maybe some of the most experienced keepers have had success doing this before and can share!

 

[bobcochran]

I don't use either product, but my guess is it would dry out first if the temps in your bug boxes are elevated. Then the feeders won't have access to moisture.
Trial and error while you're at home would be my suggestion
It might be difficult to keep a cham when you're home less than half the time.

 

[Andee]

The bug burger and cricket crack would dry out too quickly to last. I don't condone the use of water crystals but some people use them. I would also suggest carrots and sweet potato like things. The issue with having colonies of crickets and dubia roaches is they go through food much quicker than you expect. I go through a whole orange worth of fruit, and two large carrots worth of veggies a day plus a large dish worth of dry food. It's ridiculous. My colony is not huge either, my dubia colony is only 700-800 strong. They are just garbage disposals XD

 

[valo7184]

The bug burger and cricket crack would dry out too quickly to last. I don't condone the use of water crystals but some people use them. I would also suggest carrots and sweet potato like things. The issue with having colonies of crickets and dubia roaches is they go through food much quicker than you expect. I go through a whole orange worth of fruit, and two large carrots worth of veggies a day plus a large dish worth of dry food. It's ridiculous. My colony is not huge either, my dubia colony is only 700-800 strong. They are just garbage disposals XD

I appreciate the responses. Makes sense the food would dry out. Might consider water crystals and just using the cricket crack dry, and just keeping it in the insect enclosure with temps lower. All feeders that go in the cage would have no food for the two-four days. I'm definitely gone a lot, so I'm doing all of this research and questioning prior to actually delving into this. I would really like to make it a hobby, but have to consider how much I am gone.

 

[cyberlocc]

How often do you leave for 4 days? How do you plan to deal with temps for those 4 days. It is sounding like you are too busy for a cham, maybe try a snake they only eat 1 time every week or so.

Leaving once for 4 days is risky enough. Doing it on a constant basis sounds like a recipe for disaster too much could go wrong too fast.

 

[BKO Overdrive]

I can only speak for cricket crack and water crystals. Ive used this for about two months now, i know not a huge amount of time but good enough i suppose, i have two small trays, one with crystals and one with crack (sounds like im talking about drugs lol) I use the cricket crack dry and they still eat it all up, i did test to see how long it would last and at most for the tray i have it last 4-5 days before its all gone but i only get about 40 at a time. The eat the water crystals as well and ive had better results with that then standard fruit, starts to stink and makes a mess in the cricket bin, i did notice something sorta neat. The crickets will go for the crystals then track the water in the cricket crack that sorta coats there legs, when i feed my cham hes getting what in the crickets and whats on there legs so its a bonus i guess. Before when i would do vegs and fruits the crickets when fed and get smash by my chams mouth would be normal, i know this is gross but now they squirt and look very hydrated and full of food. Ive been very happy and I think this solution would work for you. But as the others said, if you will be gone for such a long time you will have to get timers and automatic misters to control the temps and lighting situation. I work 8-5 and sometimes Ill only see her in the afternoon an hour before she goes to sleep. Because of this her lighting/dripper is all on a timer for her to go to sleep and wake up and hour before she eats. Her mister is on a different timer. So if your gone that much you will have to invest in automatic things

 

[cyberlocc]

I can only speak for cricket crack and water crystals. Ive used this for about two months now, i know not a huge amount of time but good enough i suppose, i have two small trays, one with crystals and one with crack (sounds like im talking about drugs lol) I use the cricket crack dry and they still eat it all up, i did test to see how long it would last and at most for the tray i have it last 4-5 days before its all gone but i only get about 40 at a time. The eat the water crystals as well and ive had better results with that then standard fruit, starts to stink and makes a mess in the cricket bin, i did notice something sorta neat. The crickets will go for the crystals then track the water in the cricket crack that sorta coats there legs, when i feed my cham hes getting what in the crickets and whats on there legs so its a bonus i guess. Before when i would do vegs and fruits the crickets when fed and get smash by my chams mouth would be normal, i know this is gross but now they squirt and look very hydrated and full of food. Ive been very happy and I think this solution would work for you

I would advise against water crystals, and there is a reason. Sometimes when the crickets have crystals, when they dehydrate the crystals can stick to the cricket. Then when the chameleon eats the cricket, the crystal swells up and causes impaction and even death. Many of chameleons have died from those crystals, and it is not an If it will happen its a when, because eventually if you use them long enough with enough chams it will happen.

If you think that is a wives tell and everyone doesn't know how much easier the crystals are, I would suggest google. It is a very very good reason to not use them.

 

[valo7184]

How often do you leave for 4 days? How do you plan to deal with temps for those 4 days. It is sounding like you are too busy for a cham, maybe try a snake they only eat 1 time every week or so.

Leaving once for 4 days is risky enough. Doing it on a constant basis sounds like a recipe for disaster too much could go wrong too fast.

Four days is the max amount time I'm gone. Usually it's just a weekend. Sometimes we get four days off. It just varies. Im in the military and my wife lives two hours away so I drive to her about every other weekend. The terrarium would have all automatic lights, heater and mister (Mistking). I'm not skimping on anything with the setup. The only issue would be the feeding schedule for the insects and husbandry for them. I have three ways of feeding the chameleon (the sunny d cup for crickets with modification to it, a cup with stick in the middle for the roaches, and the Phoenix worms would be in a dish attached to branch within the cage).

 

[cyberlocc]

Four days is the max amount time I'm gone. Usually it's just a weekend. Sometimes we get four days off. It just varies. Im in the military and my wife lives two hours away so I drive to her about every other weekend. The terrarium would have all automatic lights, heater and mister (Mistking). I'm not skimping on anything with the setup. The only issue would be the feeding schedule for the insects and husbandry for them. I have three ways of feeding the chameleon (the sunny d cup for crickets with modification to it, a cup with stick in the middle for the roaches, and the Phoenix worms would be in a dish attached to branch within the cage).

Right but temps? Are you going to run the AC constantly while you are gone? You are going to have to.

The biggest concern is equipment failure. Mist Kings, Thermostats, even ACs fail, and when they do they can make a deathly situation very quickly.

Food aside, as that could be alright. If the water fails or the AC fails, and the cage hits really high temps or has no water for 4 days you will have a dead cham.

 

[BKO Overdrive]

I would advise against water crystals, and there is a reason. Sometimes when the crickets have crystals, when they dehydrate the crystals can stick to the cricket. Then when the chameleon eats the cricket, the crystal swells up and causes impaction and even death. Many of chameleons have died from those crystals, and it is not an If it will happen its a when, because eventually if you use them long enough with enough chams it will happen.

If you think that is a wives tell and everyone doesn't know how much easier the crystals are, I would suggest google. It is a very very good reason to not use them.

Oh wow i honestly didn't know that, should i then just throw orange slices and sweet potatoes for hydration? Also just to clarify, i have my crickets in there own cage, i dont have the crystals in the cham cage. You saying when it dries up it will re swell back up? I honestly thought it was a once its puffed up its done. I got them here: http://tikitikireptiles.com/products.php?id=48

 

[Andee]

Always use fruit and veggies instead of water crystals, water crystals offer no nutritional value and are dangerous. If you are having mold issues it means your humidity and air flow are off.

 

[valo7184]

Right but temps? Are you going to run the AC constantly while you are gone? You are going to have to.

The biggest concern is equipment failure. Mist Kings, Thermostats, even ACs fail, and when they do they can make a deathly situation very quickly.

Food aside, as that could be alright. If the water fails or the AC fails, and the cage hits really high temps or has no water for 4 days you will have a dead cham.

Well that depends on the temperature of where I live. I live in Kansas. It doesn't get too hot and my place will stay within a reasonable temp from 50-75 degree most times of the year except for winter. As long as the ambient temp of the terrarium can be maintained with a decent heat lamp, I don't see any issue with the ambient temp of my house affecting the cage temps too drastically if the AC or heater went out. If power all together went out, then yes, that would be an issue, but power outages are fixed relatively quickly, so this begs the question of whether or not the timers reset during an outage? If they don't reset, then the power will go back on as normal and the timing schedule shouldn't be affected. I understand your concern for temp outages, and equipment failure, but how likely will a Mistking fail if RO or distilled water is always used in it? Again, a hard question to answer.

 

[BKO Overdrive]

If you use a timer with a battery in it your good, but if you use one without, when power goes off itll throw the timer off.

 

[cyberlocc]

Oh wow i honestly didn't know that, should i then just throw orange slices and sweet potatoes for hydration? Also just to clarify, i have my crickets in there own cage, i dont have the crystals in the cham cage. You saying when it dries up it will re swell back up? I honestly thought it was a once its puffed up its done. I got them here: http://tikitikireptiles.com/products.php?id=48

Yes they puff back up and re hydrate.

Well that depends on the temperature of where I live. I live in Kansas. It doesn't get too hot and my place will stay within a reasonable temp from 50-75 degree most times of the year except for winter. As long as the ambient temp of the terrarium can be maintained with a decent heat lamp, I don't see any issue with the ambient temp of my house affecting the cage temps too drastically if the AC or heater went out. If power all together went out, then yes, that would be an issue, but power outages are fixed relatively quickly, so this begs the question of whether or not the timers reset during an outage? If they don't reset, then the power will go back on as normal and the timing schedule shouldn't be affected. I understand your concern for temp outages, and equipment failure, but how likely will a Mistking fail if RO or distilled water is always used in it? Again, a hard question to answer.

Need timers with battery's as said. About the Mist King, they are fairly hardy sure but anything can fail for any reason.
Its really up to you, how much trust you want to put into it, I wouldn't put much. I come to that as someone who sells similar pumps, I would not put much trust in it. If It were me, I would be 100% sure that everything has a backup.

If you have to leave all the time, I would put the chameleon setup on a high KWH UPS, and go with redundant MK pumps (in parallel, this will double the PSI, but that should be okay ask MK to be sure or get a PSI reducer), and nothing less than a Spyder Robotics Herp Stat 1 (not basic it doesn't have a relay). That way you are ready for failure and can deal with it. That may be a little extreme but as much as you are gone I would suggest nothing less personally.

A Portable A/C / Heater with a digital Stat would also be helpful. Just to ensure the temps stay in line. You could set it higher or lower than the main and only use it in the chameleons room.

A webcam and or one of those reptile guardians would also come in handy. To remotely check up.

As to kansas weather. You would be surprised. Here is the thing especially with places that get cold. Your house was built to keep heat in, it will also do that in the summer. If it gets to 80 outside my house and the cooler is off it can get 100+ inside easily, as my house is built to handle the cold winters where I live.

Now add the heat from the lights (even if the herpstat shuts the basking off) you could get alot higher temps in there than you think.