extreme drooling driving me nuts!

QuioteCham

QuioteCham

New Member
All three of my girl chams and male cham (panthers) live in identicle: conditions, correct uv lighting, basking areas, humidity, whole 9 yards, etc. One female and the male are perfectly fine. The other 2 females keep having reaccurring cases of exccess saliva, extreme drooling and outward turning of the bottom lips. I have had them go through this 4 times each now, always showing signs of full recovery after each time. But still, it comes back. Without naming the vets, I have had 2 different reptile specialty vets diagnose them completely differently every time I've seen them. Different meds have been prescribed. When they overcome this illness, it seems they have done so entirely on their own, that it is not the medication. (one of the females has even had 2 different injections). They do eat well, they are both fat. Can any one explain what would cause extreme salvation with turned out lips, then clear up and come back? note: despite same conditions, the other 2 chams out of 4 are completely normal. They don't look like they are gonna kill over any time soon or anything, but they seem highly uncomfortable during this.
 
Do they do this while drinking or when they see food? I had a very compromised rescue melleri who was always fighting dehydration. I sprayed him directly so he got every drop of water whenever it was offered. When he started drinking he would salivate so much the strings of clear saliva dripped from his chin. I always suspected some kidney damage from previous poor care. Even after acclimitizing he did this. He lived a long time but always seemed to be trying to "catch up" on hydration.

I'm not suggesting you aren't giving them proper care, but maybe these particular ones are especially thirsty for some reason.
 
yes, thats exactly whats happening! They have a automatic dripper and misting system and a humidifier that constantly runs. Its weird that 2 do this and 2 do not. The 2 that do seem always thirsty and the others could care less. I'm pretty sure they don't have kidney damage or anything that severe, what else may cause this behavior?:confused:
 
can we see a pic of your enclosure.
How high is the humidity?
and what medicine these vets prescribed? -I am guessing Baytril or Fortaz, am I correct?
 
humidity is in the high 70's, they have water availibility coming from a humidifier, auto misting system, and manual misting 5-6 times a day. Basking temps are 85, cooler temps are 70. I can't load the pics for some reason, my comp is acting retarded again, but its a 3ft by 4.5ft all mesh cage. They have a live ficus and money tree with additional sticks and rope vine to climb. They have direct sunlight as well as UV. They have recieved batril (which does crap I know), an injection has been given (served same purpose as batril, I'm trying to find paperwork that has name) and at one point they were even diagnosed to have worms and were given a deworming med (I am familiar with worms, how to watch for them, I felt that they didnt have them but they still took the meds). I don't wanna over load their little bodies with too much man made stuff. Whats weird, is the other 2 chams are completely fine.
 
I want to hear from you directly what is your humidity when the cage is DRY, between mistings.
also at night when you are not misting at all...say just before the lights come on.
I understand that you already said that your humidity is in the high 70s, but please post again what your humidity is when the cages are dry.

5-6 manual mistings ontop of an auto mister? realy? a humidifier on top of that?
all of this sounds excesive.
just what is the humidity in your house without the humidifier running?

this sounds like URI to me. caused by too wet of an environment.
I'll bet your cages almost never fully dry out other then at night at best.

Harry
 
I agree, that misting session is excessive.
Panther do not need to have 80% constant humidity.
The cage also needs to have drying time in between.
The Baytril should deal with the Respiratory Infection (although, chameleon keepers I knew seem to lean toward Fortaz better)

The problem it keep reoccurring probably comes from the husbandry issues.

If you are using an auto mister, you do not need to manually mist them.
Plus, you are also using a humidifier.
Is the drooling like this? -> http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/upper-respiratory-infection-warning.html
 
Are the cages of the two near a window or a vent and the others not? Can any of them see each other? Are the cages all the same exactly...lights and all? Is the humidifier closer to the two that salivate more? Misting system?
 
All chams are up against a huge open window, so there is plenty of ventilitaion and direct sunlight. They do have alot of moisture going on. I started manually misting them because the 2 girls with the problem always act like they havent had water in years. I live in So Cal so its been very hot out here for the last couple months, the cages have been drying out pretty well. During their "dry time", the humidity level drops way down to about 40, and its only in about half the cage (when its drying out) since its all mesh and much of the humidity goes out the window. Fluctuating humidity temps are something i've been having issues with lately. When the humidifier is off at night, the gage reads at low 20's for the room they're in. They can all see each other at some point during the day. They have a new free range that they have all been rotating on. The male likes it the most so he gets more time on it, but its in the same room as the cages. Seeing eah other has never been an issue for any of them, They all get along, and the male is very nonaggressive.
 
I have heard that the milky white substance from the Ficus tree could sometimes cause salivation among some chameleons. I heard this from breeders at a reptile show. They strongly suggested against ficus plants, which is why I have pothos, ginger and umbrella plants in my enclosure. The ginger's herbal properties destroy all harmful diseases and parasites in my chameleon (if any). I see him chewing on the plant a lot. Hope this helps!:)
 
Bio123 said:
I have heard that the milky white substance from the Ficus tree could sometimes cause salivation among some chameleons.
Click to expand...

Interesting thought.
do you have any articles or links for me to read about this?
I am not aware of any relation between ficus sap with salivation.
I only know that the milky sap can cause irritation to the eye.
Other than that, I don't see any reason why we should not use ficus.
 
Bio123 said:
Here are some links about allergies related to Ficus sap.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16436154?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/61005240/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://thepetparade.com/hypoglycemia.htm

Therefore, these links prove that Ficus sap causes hypoglycemia, which in turn causes some animals to drool.
Click to expand...

I am unable to see the links (except for the last one).
Is there a way for me to be able to read them?
 
You said..."All chams are up against a huge open window, so there is plenty of ventilitaion and direct sunlight. They do have alot of moisture going on"...I was concerned about whether they were getting a cool draft when they were still wet.

If they are old enough to be sexually mature, do you have a place for them in the cage to dig to lay eggs if they need to? Are the background colors ever dark and do they have mustardy/yellow splotches with bright torquoise/bluish dots?

You said..."They can all see each other at some point during the day"...IMHO it would be better if they can't see each other if they are sexually mature.
 
They don't have a cold draft, at least not that I can find during the evening or day. Their bodies are always warm. They have "dig spots" within the cages and at the bottom of the free range. Their coloring is normal, both girls are very pretty with color, but nothing unusual. I have asked before about chams seeing each other and I have been given competely different opinions (they are sexually mature). I have tried puttig the chams is different rooms (when this has happened before) and it didn't seem to make a noticable difference. For an upate: One of two has recently shed and seems much better, almost totally normal. I have also stopped manually misting as often to reduce any extra moisture in the cage.
 
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