Explaining Common Responses

[boneseast]

I think we need to stop arguing a thread that is meant to be helpful. Being a pet owner it is up to you how you care for your pet. The best thing you can do is get as much info on the choices to make and then decide what is best for you/ your pet. There are a lot of issues that people come across whether it be linear vs coiled bulbs or fake vs real plants. Each of us might have different experiences with certain products feeders etc. So instead of going back and forth we should just share our opinion and let it be and hope that whoever is asking the question gets the info they are looking for. I can say that eveyone on this forum is knowledgeable and helpful which has made caring for my first Cham go pretty smooth.

 

[Pure]

Dan, maybe add this link to your original post. http://www.iespell.com/download.php

It won't do much in the way of grammar, but it definitely helps with the spelling. o.0

 

[jojackson]

LOl Shan, I know my spelling often falls short, Though I make an effort. Thanks for the reminder.

Harry, the common response is 'live plants are better'. (I will edit to make you happy) I wrote a little about both ok.
And I remember not too far back reading a post in which somebodys veiled was thought to have eaten fake plant leaves, I just couldnt find it with the search function.
My computer skills suck, my memory dosent!

 

[jojackson]

More information

While the collective knowhow and experience of this forums members is
comprehensive, many many factors are involved in assessing the right advice for you.
This includes, your species, its age, sex, caging, lighting and other variables, along
with any available history of behaviour, feeding and known health issues.

While your lizards problem might sound like it should be simple to resolve for
a forum of keepers, the first likely reason or solution may not nessarily apply.
For this reason, a members first response is often .more information.
A questionaire for this purpous has been compiled and if completed as
fully as possible, will be referenced by those trying to help you. This can be found
here.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/

While this may seem daunting, it will provide a larger picture for anyone of what might
be happening with your lizard, and thus, a more accurate and helpful response.

My lizards eyes are closed

What lighting are you using

While closed eyes during the day generally mean something wrong, causes can be many.
The first and most common concern, particularly with those new to chams and/or reptiles,
is that certain lighting can have negative effects on your reptile. There are many lighting
options on the market, many of which are sadly not suited to your lizards wellbeing, often
despite being recommended by pet stores.

substrate:

Lose the substrate!

Even if it looks natural, and has never been a problem, the potential for serious problem remains
with its use.
Since most folk here are dealing with chameleons (most of them are highly arborial with some exceptions)
The general thinking seems to be that its both unnesesary and risky (ingestion/impaction)
Though the issue is contentious and often dosent make sense (afterall isnt there substrate in the wild)
Its a matter of erring on the side of caution.

Wild lizards roam freely, generally not remaining in one place constantly. Your captive lizard
however, more specifically, your captive chameleon, lives for the most part, permanently
over just a few square feet of floorspace. Statiscaly the odds of your lizard ingesting substrate
are greatly enhanced for this reason.
Due to the unique specifics of most chameleon husbandry (moving water), substrate is not
recommended since it will get wet and stay that way.
This greatly increases the instance of mould/bacteria which can cause your healthy lizard sickness.

waterbowls/waterfalls

Get rid of the waterbowl/waterfall !

Whats wrong with a waterbowl or waterfeature? Lizards need water right.
Generally speaking , yes.
Firstly, research and captive chameleon keeping experience has shown that most chameleons
do not approach a still water source to drink (with exceptions), but rather appear to be
stimulated to drink by rain showers (simulated by misting) and water droplets dripping from leaves,
just as they would in nature. Hydration is vital for your lizard, it can still dehydrate with a
waterbowl if it dosent drink from it.

The second line of thinking is to avoid the natural bacterial buildup that grows rapidly
(and invisiblely) in waterbowls and features, if not constantly and thouroughly cleaned.
Lets face it, if the water looks clean, and you are tired, you will be less likely to bother
removing, sterilising and so in, most especially with waterfeatures like waterfalls.
For reasons known only to themselves, lizards seem to like defecating into water,
making bacteria a much bigger issue.

Water dripping through your lizards cage can be always fresh and uncontaiminated.
Many chameleons learn to drink directly frim dripper/mister sources.

plants fake and live

Live plants are better

Whats the harm here? Some species of chameleon, more particularly veiled/yemen and panthers
do tend to enjoy some plant matter in the diet. The risk with some faux plants is
that even chameleon jaws can be strong, a curious lizard may tear and ingest your fake plant,
leading to possibly lethal impaction of its intestines.
Fake plants can look good and provide extra visual security for your lizard, but ensure they are
strong tough plactic types, with leaves moulded from the branch if possible.
Plants with silk leaves will tend to soak up waterdroplets, reducing the opportunity for
your lizard to drink.

Live plants are much preferred, particularly broad leaf varieties (more surface area for water collection
and visual security). Be aware however that while your newly purchased plant may look great,
if eaten by your lizard, may prove lethal. This forum has compiled a 'safe plant list' for you
this may be found here

https://www.chameleonforums.com/plants/

I highly reccomend carefully jotting down the latin (scientific) name of plants you choose,
and carefully matching these to the tag/lable on the plant you purchase, to avoid errors.
Note: many plants have 'lookalikes', almost identical in appearance but have toxic properties.
Some store plants are only labelled with the common name e.g shefflera. Its best to avoid these
as differing cultivars may be toxic.

Safe live plants enhance your lizards enviroment, provide hiding places/security, drinking surfaces,
and aid in increasing ambient humidity aswell.

*I invite other members to add explainations for common responses you can think of. cheers*

...........................................

 

[Pure]

LOL dude, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular. LMAO.

 

[jojackson]

I thought that, but I always try to be concious of my own failings.
You wern't serious though right? Grammar is one thing that annoys most, but most of us can overlook spelling provided its not every second word.

What about folk with other browsers who cnat sepl ?

 

[Pure]

LOL simple grammar and spelling is one of my pet peeves. Wile my grammar may not be perfect, I at least try. And well that Spell Check, I linked it because it's too easy to use not to have it. I think it's a tool every forum poster should use. Eh for those not on IE, I dunno..

 

[warpdrive]

LOl Shan, I know my spelling often falls short, Though I make an effort. Thanks for the reminder.

Harry, the common response is 'live plants are better'. (I will edit to make you happy) I wrote a little about both ok.
And I remember not too far back reading a post in which somebodys veiled was thought to have eaten fake plant leaves, I just couldnt find it with the search function.
My computer skills suck, my memory dosent!

the cham in question injested bark from a real branch and choked to death.
maybe I'm thinking of a different cham, or maybe my memory is better.

regardless, my point is that we have enough "myths" or thoughts not based on facts running around this forum as it is. I just don't see a need for any more.

belive me, I don't think you are wrong in your thinking or thoughts.
I just don't think that a panic started from some random thought needs to be placed out there.

Harry

 

[jojackson]

the cham in question injested bark from a real branch and choked to death.
maybe I'm thinking of a different cham, or maybe my memory is better.

I remember that one too, different lizard. You think folk using fake plants will panic because of what I wrote? Not my intention, simply awareness. Prevention is always better than cure.
I think new folk tend to panic anyway, often at the slightest thing. What we dont understand frightens/worries us, hence education dispells myths and the concerns stemming from them.

"Better to light a candle than to curse in the darkness" ~ Anon

take for example your thoughts on live plants...
....so just how many posts have we seen saying that their cham has been eating fake plants? 1, 2, 30? NONE?
come on now.

P.S. Heres some threads for ya mate! Dont seem like myths or gossip to me Harry.

don't use cheap fake plants that are flimsy or can be pulled off the "branch".

A subdult female I bought fro a breeder long ago died several months after I bought her. She even mated and laid a healthy clutch in the time I had her. She died shortly after.

Her stomach was completely full of those cheap, "silk" plants you see so many breeders use at reptile shows. These had not been bitten off, but had been yanked off the rest of the "vine" and swallowed whole. They stayed there for a long time, lead to impaction and death.

I used fake plants, even with veileds. I make sure they're not going to be able to pull them apart. SOME veileds are big plant eaters, and should never be housed with fake plants.

post#3

https://www.chameleonforums.com/deterrent-fake-plants-20636/

veiled Chameleon Tiga, is 5 months old roughly. and seems to be starting to get interested in plant life for eating. Last week i witnessed her trying to eat some fake ficus leaves we have in our 65 gallon flexarium.

post#1

https://www.chameleonforums.com/exo-terra-jungle-vines-19156/

My Panther is eating the Biovine

title
https://www.chameleonforums.com/my-panther-eating-biovine-31599/

also, post1#

hey everyone,
So I just caught my three month old male panther chewing on, and trying to rip pieces off the biovine in his cage?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/eating-biovine-7478/

How many use Plastic Plants in the Chams enclosures? I lost an adult Fischers in the past, and autopsy showed a plastic leaf lodged in his throat as the cause of death. Probably hit a feeder on the leaf and the leaf broke off.

post#1
https://www.chameleonforums.com/plastic-plants-18882/

I went plastic with him, but then i saw him trying to eat the fake leaves... which pull apart from the vine if you pull with enough pressure. I had to rush in there and take it out of his mouth before he swallows it

post#5
https://www.chameleonforums.com/plastic-vs-fresh-7271/

I use Fluker's bend a branches in several of my cages. I have noticed several of my chams trying to pull pieces off of it. I am starting to wonder if it is cricket flavored. My Oustalet, my female Veiled, and my male Nosy have all done it! Anyone else notice this?

post#1
https://www.chameleonforums.com/eating-fake-vines-6751/

One day I noticed that my veilds were chewing on the fake plants I had in their cage, soo I went outside and got them some Hibiscus leaves and flowers.

post #1
https://www.chameleonforums.com/plants-healthy-chameleons-5223/

And here's the one I remembered!

hi, i am in the u.k and have a lovely veiled cham called murphy, he is almost a yr old.
i think he may have eaten one of the leaves off the only blooming plastic plant in his cage,and he has vomited a few times (3)
he hasnt vomited the leaf.
i have been in touch with my reptile vets,and they said to just wait for it to pass, but murphy isnt eating now. its been two days since he ate the leaf,and he is spending a lot of time basking,so i have upped the temps to around 34c in the hottest part of the cage. (measured/regulated by a thermostat)
is there anything i can do to help him pass/vomit the leaf back?

post#1
https://www.chameleonforums.com/veiled-eaten-plastic-plant-31378/


***********************8

my point here is that we should be giving people advice on what will work for "THEM" and not what works for "US"...if we can remember that, then the advice we give will truly help that person and not be some repeated garbage that may just not be too helpful at all.

Wouldn't it have been much easier to just say that to begin with? Sometimes you confuse the shite out of me mate!

An ounce of prevention Mate. My thinking is that they wouldn't be 'common' responses if there was no sense to them. Often they Are repeated without consideration for the threadstarters circumstances or relevance, I agree, however the idea behind this thread is simply to explain why such responses are so oft touted, and the reasoning behind them. Some may be considered not worth mentioning, in the case of cheap faux plants v's live, I think regardless of statistics, I would like to made aware of such possibilities.

 

[Courtney]

My juvie veileds are big on eateing plants. its driving me crazy...i just got them a yummy treat to eat.. tomorrow is project day..ill keep you posted..any way as soon as i can im going to remove all fake plant matter that can be pulled apart. not because of this forum but because you generaly dont let your child swim alone just cause they are excellent swimmers. i think some of the fake vines are made of cardboard wraped around a wire similar to a coat hanger..i think they get over flexed absorb moisture and they chew on them. i could be wrong though....

 

[jojackson]

any way as soon as i can im going to remove all fake plant matter that can be pulled apart. not because of this forum but because you generaly dont let your child swim alone just cause they are excellent swimmers.

Exactly, awareness _common sense/prevention.
Once you're aware of something, you can act to prevent it.
This entire forum is about education aimed toward to wellbeing of captive chams.

 

[warpdrive]

My juvie veileds are big on eateing plants. its driving me crazy...i just got them a yummy treat to eat.. tomorrow is project day..ill keep you posted..any way as soon as i can im going to remove all fake plant matter that can be pulled apart. not because of this forum but because you generaly dont let your child swim alone just cause they are excellent swimmers. i think some of the fake vines are made of cardboard wraped around a wire similar to a coat hanger..i think they get over flexed absorb moisture and they chew on them. i could be wrong though....

good for you.
I'm not big on fake plants myself.
I'm also glad that JJ pointed out the quotes and threads that he did

as for your cham eating plants...try feeding fruits and veggies every now and then.
it might help stop that from happening, or happening less often.
try apple, colladgreens, kale, pear, all cut up into small pieces.
watermellon, strawberry, and blueberry, can be tryed as well.

you are also not wrong about the bendable vines.

the thing is, and I'll say this again, almost everything we put inside out cages can be harmful.
it is up to us to try to put quality items inside.
most of the fake garbage plants used in reptile cages are realy plants used for fish tanks...but there are some that are not bad for reptile cages, and they are fully molded or don't have removeable parts.
still, I'm not a big fan of fake plants.

--------------

JJ,

yeah, sometimes I do have a hard time getting my point across.

Harry

 

[Syn]

If the money tree common response hasn't been added, I think now is a good time to do so. LOL

 

[Bio123]

Newb guide to chameleon forums!

 

[arrested spy]

Idea

I am new in caring for chameleons I like the mentor idea how about choosing mentors from different geo locations (states). I am in Arizona (dry,hot ,cold) I try to friend members in az due to our housing setups will most likely be similar and helps to make local friends. Also thanks to folks on this forum for making this a great experience!!!

 

[arrested spy]

Exo terra vines

Also on the vine subject I'm using exo terra vines I was told they rub feet and body raw on chams I pulled from cages and lightly ran sandpaper over and cleaned with water a lot of debris came off and vines have a less abrasive feel anyone ran into this or am I an over cautious keeper lol....

 

[HolyToledo]

Also on the vine subject I'm using exo terra vines I was told they rub feet and body raw on chams I pulled from cages and lightly ran sandpaper over and cleaned with water a lot of debris came off and vines have a less abrasive feel anyone ran into this or am I an over cautious keeper lol....

I found those vines and loved the idea so I bought lots.
Then, when I took them out and started handling them, I was very worried too. They are rough!
So, I spent a few hours and rubbed and scraped and sanded and smoothed everything down.
Good thing I did. My male veiled developed health issues and was pulling himself around dragging his body. I think if I hadn't smoothed the vines, his belly would have been hamburger by now.