*Emergency* Jackson chameleon dying!?!

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
I wasn't joking, I've been studying the Wiccan religion. You have your beliefs and I have mine.
Any help is greatly appreciated, just because I believe in something different isn't a reason you shouldn't help me.
I can agree that we have different beliefs certainly. What most of us here want is to make sure you get the chance to seek all possible options for the correct care of your animal...both the mainstream "accepted" approaches as well as the less common ones. Basic biology holds true regardless of what someone chooses to believe. Even though you may prefer to use your healing spells on your cham, it doesn't mean there are no other effective treatments available or called for. Basic nutrition for example. We can see the potential for long term health problems that MAY HAVE contributed to her issues now. That's why our help questions work...I care just as much for a pet in a Wiccan household as one in a Episcopalian, Catholic, Muslim, or any other faith's home. Your cham doesn't necessarily believe what you do...all it knows is that it is not well.

IMHO the ONLY UVB emitting bulbs I would ever use for my chams are the ReptiSun 5.0 or the Arcadia line.
 
I agree with Carlton you should switch out your lighting, slime line lights are not the way to go, in some case those lights have been known to blind your reptiles. Reptisun 5.0 or 10.0 depending on the size of your cages are the way to go. Also if you can get your hands on some liquid calcium and try getting that into her mouth that would be a great start.
 

dereckperkins

New Member
Wait, the Reptisun 5.0 is better than the Slimline? I was under the impression it was the other way around. I've used slimline since I first got her and had no problem, the Reptisun 5.0 is available for $12 where I live, so that'd be less than half of the Slimline. If it's safer and cheaper, I definitely wouldn't mind switching, how often should I replace the bulbs?
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
Why do people own animals when they cannot afford vet care? It comes with the territory. Sorry. Had to vent. See it all too often on here.
 

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
Wait, the Reptisun 5.0 is better than the Slimline? I was under the impression it was the other way around. I've used slimline since I first got her and had no problem, the Reptisun 5.0 is available for $12 where I live, so that'd be less than half of the Slimline. If it's safer and cheaper, I definitely wouldn't mind switching, how often should I replace the bulbs?
I'm not familiar with this bulb...is it made by Zilla? I know you've had her a long time while using them, but a ReptiSun 5.0 is fine for a jackson's. Change the bulb every 6 months.

As for the calcium spray, I haven't used it. It is probably more expensive to use than dusts. I would however, check the ingredients. If it provides calcium with vitamin D3 you won't want to use it every day. Montane species like jax are sensitive to fat soluable vitamins like D3 and you'll overdose her. You need to give her plain calcium (lightly) every day, calcium with D3 about once a month, plus a herp multivitamin about once a month.
 

dereckperkins

New Member
The spray doesn't have D3, and I use it once a week. I dust crickets with a calcium with D3 once a month. The spray cost me like $12 and I've only had to replace it once since I've gotten her. The powder with D3 costed me $23 and I haven't had to replace it at all, and it's only half way empty.
Yes, the slimline UVB light I use is made by Zilla.
I've used the same brand of supplements and same lighting since I got her.
I figure if it works, don't change it.
I wouldn't mind changing them though, as long as I knew it was better for her.
See seems to be doing much better, she has been more and more active as the days pass. It's been 4 days since I've seen her eat though, and 2 since I've seen her drink anything. I've tried giving her water with the syringe, but like before she just ignores me.

Also to the person asking why get a pet if you can't afford a vet...
Most people have the extra money for vets when buying a pet, but money doesn't last forever. Especially when you own a chameleon.
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
In response to your statement about money. Yes, we all go through hard times at one point or another and sometimes we have more money in our pockets than other times. I just got through reading another thread about a chameleon whose eyes were crusted shut prior to its death and the owner could not afford a vet. If it were me, I would call the vet, ask if they could work out a payment plan or try borrowing the money from someone. Sell something you own...whatever it takes to get the animal proper vet care. Sorry, but I have been on this forum for over 5 years now, and if I had a dime for every person that said I cannot afford a vet, well my vet fund would be full of hundreds of extra dollars. You just get tired of reading the same old story with the same sad results.
 

brownie64

Avid Member
In response to your statement about money. Yes, we all go through hard times at one point or another and sometimes we have more money in our pockets than other times. I just got through reading another thread about a chameleon whose eyes were crusted shut prior to its death and the owner could not afford a vet. If it were me, I would call the vet, ask if they could work out a payment plan or try borrowing the money from someone. Sell something you own...whatever it takes to get the animal proper vet care. Sorry, but I have been on this forum for over 5 years now, and if I had a dime for every person that said I cannot afford a vet, well my vet fund would be full of hundreds of extra dollars. You just get tired of reading the same old story with the same sad results.
You know there are some vet experiences that leaves people a little unsatisfied. There was one time I took a female chameleon to the vet 155 miles from home because she was the closest. I had took her to a local vet who said his best guess was she was egg bound, but he wasn't an expert so hence the reason for the 155 mile trip. I told her what he had said, and she said she agreed but would have to take some x-rays. $255.00 later she tells me she is indeed egg bound, but wouldn't operate because she felt she was too weak to survive the surgery. She couldn't have told me that before the expensive x-rays? So now I'm out $255.00, the gas for the trip, and my chameleon great experience! Don't mean to sound heartless but how often do we see people who spend hundreds of dollars on their chameleon just to watch it die? whether we like it or not the majority of the time a chameleon shows sickness it's too late for help. So unless I know it is something a vet can help with I don't waist my money, not because I don't care it's because it's just a waist of time and hope.
 

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
You know there are some vet experiences that leaves people a little unsatisfied. There was one time I took a female chameleon to the vet 155 miles from home because she was the closest. I had took her to a local vet who said his best guess was she was egg bound, but he wasn't an expert so hence the reason for the 155 mile trip. I told her what he had said, and she said she agreed but would have to take some x-rays. $255.00 later she tells me she is indeed egg bound, but wouldn't operate because she felt she was too weak to survive the surgery. She couldn't have told me that before the expensive x-rays? So now I'm out $255.00, the gas for the trip, and my chameleon great experience! Don't mean to sound heartless but how often do we see people who spend hundreds of dollars on their chameleon just to watch it die? whether we like it or not the majority of the time a chameleon shows sickness it's too late for help. So unless I know it is something a vet can help with I don't waist my money, not because I don't care it's because it's just a waist of time and hope.
My very basic concern with this approach is that you may not know what the health issue is without a vet diagnosis, and not knowing means you can't make an educated or humane decision to put the cham down (a vet can do this more humanely and quickly with an anesthetic), rehome it, or even give it the right supportive care. Without knowing what the illness is your home care may make the suffering worse or last longer. Are you willing to watch it die miserably because you think you'll waste the money on a vet?

Pet care costs $$. There's just no way around it. One of many reasons I take a new pet to a vet initially is to create that client relationship, get them interested, establish a health baseline, so if an emergency comes up the vet practice may be more open to cutting costs, payment plans, etc.
 
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Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
The spray doesn't have D3, and I use it once a week.
Chams should be getting plain calcium (no D3) daily. I think part of the concern with the spray is not being sure of the dose...if you don't spray correctly you may only be putting the inert ingredients (the carrier liquids) on the insect not the calcium. Haven't used it so I don't know.
 

brownie64

Avid Member
My very basic concern with this approach is that you may not know what the health issue is without a vet diagnosis, and not knowing means you can't make an educated or humane decision to put the cham down (a vet can do this more humanely and quickly with an anesthetic), rehome it, or even give it the right supportive care. Without knowing what the illness is your home care may make the suffering worse or last longer. Are you willing to watch it die miserably because you think you'll waste the money on a vet?

Pet care costs $$. There's just no way around it. One of many reasons I take a new pet to a vet initially is to create that client relationship, get them interested, establish a health baseline, so if an emergency comes up the vet practice may be more open to cutting costs, payment plans, etc.
I don't have an issue with euthanasia to stop the suffering of your pet, just don't think it makes much since to spend hundreds, or even thousands on a hopeless situation. But your point is well taken.
 
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carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
I don't have an issue with euthanasia to stop the suffering of your pet, just don't think it makes much since to spend hundreds, or even thousands on a hopeless situation. But your point is well taken.
Yes, I have seen over the years people spend alot of money and their chameleon still dies. Not all vets are chameleon experts. We have learned that too. However, like I said after being on here on 5 years I have seen hundreds of cases of neglect of animals that could be treated or should have been treated for different ailments. When an animals eyes are crusted shut from infection, I think it IS time that it be seen by a professional. A simple antibiotic ointment could mostly likely do the trick. There has been alot of needless suffering going on with these chameleons and it really is unnecessary and it bothers me to no end.
 

brownie64

Avid Member
Yes, I have seen over the years people spend alot of money and their chameleon still dies. Not all vets are chameleon experts. We have learned that too. However, like I said after being on here on 5 years I have seen hundreds of cases of neglect of animals that could be treated or should have been treated for different ailments. When an animals eyes are crusted shut from infection, I think it IS time that it be seen by a professional. A simple antibiotic ointment could mostly likely do the trick. There has been alot of needless suffering going on with these chameleons and it really is unnecessary and it bothers me to no end.
I couldn't agree more if it is something that can be treated like MBD, ulcers, mouth rot, sores, and eye issues. What I'm referring to is when a chameleon is on the bottom of the enclosure eyes sunken in won't eat, or drink, and its been going on for a few days I don't think there is much hope. You just need too choose your illness, and after you've been doing this for a while you kind of just know. I bought a microscope, and take a fecal every 6 month to a year to stay on top of parasites as much as possible. It cost a little at first but after the first few fecal exams it will pay for itself. :)
 
The spray doesn't have D3, and I use it once a week. I dust crickets with a calcium with D3 once a month. The spray cost me like $12 and I've only had to replace it once since I've gotten her. The powder with D3 costed me $23 and I haven't had to replace it at all, and it's only half way empty.
Yes, the slimline UVB light I use is made by Zilla.
I've used the same brand of supplements and same lighting since I got her.
I figure if it works, don't change it.
I wouldn't mind changing them though, as long as I knew it was better for her.
See seems to be doing much better, she has been more and more active as the days pass. It's been 4 days since I've seen her eat though, and 2 since I've seen her drink anything. I've tried giving her water with the syringe, but like before she just ignores me.

Also to the person asking why get a pet if you can't afford a vet...
Most people have the extra money for vets when buying a pet, but money doesn't last forever. Especially when you own a chameleon.
Well thats your fault honestly, you can't say something like that because you know what you're getting into and if you aren't fit for caring for it and getting at an appointment then I suggest putting it for adoption. Im wondering why you said it was obvious it was your "spell" that made it more active, for all you know it had a different problem and it coincidentally improved after you gave it some spell speech or something. Im a little pissed off this is how you decide to care for your pet
 
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dereckperkins

New Member
As I've stated, I know that Magick isn't a substitute for medical care. If you're going to bash on someone's beliefs, go to a different forum. She is still sick, even after my spell. All I did was give her energy to help ease the pain for her. I'm here asking for help, not ridicule for my beliefs. If you are willing to help me, I will accept your help and be extremely grateful for it. If not, please don't respond. As recommended by a poster, I have purchased the Repti-Sun 5.0 bulb and I already have a lamp handy. I will graciously admin that she is the first chameleon I've had, and when I got her I had no idea it'd cost so much. I've spent well over a grand buying the things she needs, and I'd spend a thousand more if I had it. I just spent the money I had on the bulb, and I'm hoping that'll help. I've been doing hours upon hours of research on the possible illnesses it could be, and from her symptoms for the swollen eye, energy loss, and lack of hunger that it's more than likely an infection. Worst case it could be a tumor or possibly cancer. I'm saving up money to take her to the vet and I'm going to try to find some stuff to list online to sell.
 

jcarlsen

Avid Member
As I've stated, I know that Magick isn't a substitute for medical care. If you're going to bash on someone's beliefs, go to a different forum. She is still sick, even after my spell. All I did was give her energy to help ease the pain for her. I'm here asking for help, not ridicule for my beliefs. If you are willing to help me, I will accept your help and be extremely grateful for it. If not, please don't respond. As recommended by a poster, I have purchased the Repti-Sun 5.0 bulb and I already have a lamp handy. I will graciously admin that she is the first chameleon I've had, and when I got her I had no idea it'd cost so much. I've spent well over a grand buying the things she needs, and I'd spend a thousand more if I had it. I just spent the money I had on the bulb, and I'm hoping that'll help. I've been doing hours upon hours of research on the possible illnesses it could be, and from her symptoms for the swollen eye, energy loss, and lack of hunger that it's more than likely an infection. Worst case it could be a tumor or possibly cancer. I'm saving up money to take her to the vet and I'm going to try to find some stuff to list online to sell.
This is not a religious forum, period. This is a forum about these animals for those seeking real help.
 

fluxlizard

Avid Member
Short of going to see a vet-

You can see if the problem has it's root in a vit a deficiency. Get some vitamin a gel-caps for humans. Poke a pinhole in one. Gently stroke your lizard's nose and/or lips so it opens it's mouth and gapes at you. Carefully squeeze the gelcap and drop a single drop of vit a liquid from the cap into the lizard's mouth. Repeat no more than 1x every other day for up to a week and see if the eyes clear up or start to clear up. If they do and the eyes become open, stop using the gel-caps and use reptivite on your feeders 1x every week until they become clear and then every 2-3 weeks for normal routine.

May not work, but it might. Eye problems and infections in chameleons often have their root in too little vit a and sometimes the advice I just gave you will clear up the problem.

Veterinary care- probably less than $100 if this does not work. Maybe far less- an office visit and exam (maybe $30-$40) and a little antibiotic ointment for the eyes (maybe $20).

Might be less than you are thinking. Can't hurt to ask a vet about costs and see.

And actually even with the gel-caps- getting that ointment from a vet would be advisable.
 

dereckperkins

New Member
I will try the gel caps and see if that's what it is, hopefully, that will work. The closest exotic vet around me charges $65 just for the visit and more for everything else. I'm trying to earn the money to take her, and find out what's wrong with her.

I know this isn't a religious forum, nor did I say it was. If I was to say that I prayed for her, no one would've batted an eye. I'm done talking religion, everyone else keeps bringing it up. I won't reply to anyone else mocking my beliefs.
 
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