Eggs and bin misconceptions

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
Credit: Petr Necas

Eggs and their story

millions of years the mother Nature finetuned the process and in case of panthers, taught the females to lay their eggs in shallow, 5-7cm only deep holes in half shade and half sun, in light sandy soil. The eggs were incubated all together, exposed to diapause, circadian and seasonal temperature fluctuations little rain from time to time, bigger rain from time to time and they kept together, communicated and synchronized, they helped each other till the moment of the hatch, when they hatched together, the first and strongest dug the tunnel up to say all siblings bye bye forever and started their run for survival...

And what we do?!

We force the already exhausted female to lay 8-12 inches deep in some plastic laybin and let her almost die in that process, we take the eggs and wash them, separate them, distribute them in rows and keep them one by one laying only partly dug on some artificial strange material, we put them in hermetically closed boxes and put them into bigger boxes called incubators, which care for the most unnatural temperatures regime you can imagine: constant and hot ufff... From time to time we shake them, put them into bright light and heat them like in a microvawe and care for their separation from each other like in a jail...
While in the past, they could be in touch with each other, and say: “hello, here I am, listen, knock - knock- knock, this my heart beating, how is yours?”, they could say: “heeey too dry on my end, do not let me die” and water was transferred to them; now they spend monthts and months without any contact... They do not know when is day and when night, what is the season... so, they hatch alone and covered with that artificial sh... on the body... immediately, a biiiig predator comes and catches them... not eating them, putting them on some plastic sort of plants that are smelly and sharp, do not give oxygen at daytime and nice sleep narcosis with CO2 in the night... and they get sprayed and watched by the hummongous predator that threatens all the time byt never eats them - is he stupid or what?! :/))) come on finally and eat me or I will one day eat you! See? I open the mouth, I have a big one. And one day... I will eat you you... whoever you are, yiu are not my mama.

Well this is their story.
We try to outsmart the Mother Nature.
And the results, what we get, are totally adequate, as we are not smarter than millions of years of evolution...

Why we do it different way, why we believe we do better? Why we are lazy to think and lazy to go the extra mile and with humility and respect do the best possible? Why we always find excuses?...

Well.

This is our human nature.

Let us change it
 

GoodKarma19

Chameleon Enthusiast
Credit: Petr Necas

Eggs and their story

millions of years the mother Nature finetuned the process and in case of panthers, taught the females to lay their eggs in shallow, 5-7cm only deep holes in half shade and half sun, in light sandy soil. The eggs were incubated all together, exposed to diapause, circadian and seasonal temperature fluctuations little rain from time to time, bigger rain from time to time and they kept together, communicated and synchronized, they helped each other till the moment of the hatch, when they hatched together, the first and strongest dug the tunnel up to say all siblings bye bye forever and started their run for survival...

And what we do?!

We force the already exhausted female to lay 8-12 inches deep in some plastic laybin and let her almost die in that process, we take the eggs and wash them, separate them, distribute them in rows and keep them one by one laying only partly dug on some artificial strange material, we put them in hermetically closed boxes and put them into bigger boxes called incubators, which care for the most unnatural temperatures regime you can imagine: constant and hot ufff... From time to time we shake them, put them into bright light and heat them like in a microvawe and care for their separation from each other like in a jail...
While in the past, they could be in touch with each other, and say: “hello, here I am, listen, knock - knock- knock, this my heart beating, how is yours?”, they could say: “heeey too dry on my end, do not let me die” and water was transferred to them; now they spend monthts and months without any contact... They do not know when is day and when night, what is the season... so, they hatch alone and covered with that artificial sh... on the body... immediately, a biiiig predator comes and catches them... not eating them, putting them on some plastic sort of plants that are smelly and sharp, do not give oxygen at daytime and nice sleep narcosis with CO2 in the night... and they get sprayed and watched by the hummongous predator that threatens all the time byt never eats them - is he stupid or what?! :/))) come on finally and eat me or I will one day eat you! See? I open the mouth, I have a big one. And one day... I will eat you you... whoever you are, yiu are not my mama.

Well this is their story.
We try to outsmart the Mother Nature.
And the results, what we get, are totally adequate, as we are not smarter than millions of years of evolution...

Why we do it different way, why we believe we do better? Why we are lazy to think and lazy to go the extra mile and with humility and respect do the best possible? Why we always find excuses?...

Well.

This is our human nature.

Let us change it
If I ever breed my girl (just for personal pets), I'd love to try a more natural incubation process. My girl will be kept in a bioactive enclosure - maybe I'll just leave a couple of the eggs alone and see what happens!
 

JoXie411

Chameleon Enthusiast
I love this. I have thought if I ever breed Imelda I might just leave the eggs in the Viv and just build her a new one and let the baby chams develops and mature in the cage.

I think us humans try to control stuff a little to much, I know I personally do
 

GoodKarma19

Chameleon Enthusiast
So we shouldn’t be using such deep lay bins?
More than anything, it seems that females prefer to lay against something solid - that's the theory behind them digging all the way to the bottom of the bin provided, or digging until they reach a corner, or rock, or rootball from a plant! I know some people are trying out a plant planted in the lay in, now, or even placing a rock/bark/whatever some distance down!
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
"We force the already exhausted female to lay 8-12 inches deep in some plastic laybin and let her almost die in that process"...so the female is not exhausted in the wild? Why? My lay bins are about 6inches and the substrate isn't as packed down as I expect it is in the wild.

" we take the eggs and wash them"...never did that..it would wash the bloom off them and they would likely grow mole.

"separate them, distribute them in rows and keep them one by one laying only partly dug on some artificial strange material"...guilty....but I've tried incubating them as close as possible to what they would be in the wild and it's almost impossible to control the humidity and temperature that way.

"we put them in hermetically closed boxes and put them into bigger boxes called incubators, which care for the most unnatural temperatures regime you can imagine: constant and hot ufff"..my boxes were not sealed tightly and my incubator set up kept them in the dark but the temperatures fluctuated from day to day, hour to hour because it was open to the room.

."From time to time we shake them"..only moved the container very gently once every month or so to check on things.

"put them into bright light and heat them like in a microvawe and care for their separation from each other like in a jail"..never candled them. Don't know what is meant by microwave or jail?

"now they spend monthts and months without any contact"...not sure that's a good thing or a bad thing but by separating them in rows they I've felt that the pheromones don't give the neighbouring eggs a signal to hatch altogether and each hatches when it's at its most ready point instead of being "forced" to hatch all together.

" They do not know when is day and when night, what is the season"... Do they know that in the hole in the ground?

"whoever you are, yiu are not my mama"... They don't know their mother in the wild either. (anthropomorphism?)
 

waynek

Member
I actually have done it by accident a few times. The first time was with c.t. Montium. The female laid the eggs. I had no clue and a few months later 7 little bugs were in the cage. Luckily she was well fed. I checked the substrate and found 7 hatched eggs.
 
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