Egg incubation

[cpressman]

My 9 month old female panther chameleon mated a few weeks ago then layed eggs only 13 days later. Was mating too late for these eggs to be fertile? She layed 27 eggs and so far 5 eggs have turned moldy (10 days after laying).

I have been following the recommendations of an article stating to keep the eggs in vermiculite in a sealed tupperware container. Should eggs be kept in a sealed container or should they have ventilation? Are my eggs molding because they are not fertile or am I incubating them improperly? I have decades of experience keeping chameleons as pets, but this is my first attempt at breeding. Any feedback from someone with more experience breeding would be appreciated.

 

[Leroux2008]

You should definitely watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Rq-EzsBuY

 

[Leroux2008]

That is dez from Chameleot Chameleons one of our sponsors. She is using hatchrite but I hear from others vermiculite is just as good.

 

[kinyonga]

I put two very very tiny holes in the lid of the shoebox sized containers I use but I don't know that they are even necessary.

Infertile eggs are usually slightly smaller than fertile ones and fertile ones are white like chicken eggs while infertile ones are more yellow.
If you post a picture of the eggs we should be able to tell you.

How moist is your vermiculite? If you take a fist full of it you should only be able to squeeze a drop or two of water out of it.

 

[Leroux2008]

From what this says http://www.kingsnake.com/rockymountain/RMHPages/RMHCarpets.htm

It takes anywheres from 30-40 days before she will actually lay the eggs and on day 20 u should make sure u definitely have a laying bin in there.,.... you might be too late =[[ just in case though I wouldnt get rid of the eggs just yet. Make sureu take out the ones you know FOR sure are infertile

 

[cpressman]

Thanks for the feedback. I've attached a picture of a few of the "good" eggs. They appear nice and white. I will add a few ventilation holes. It seems that my eggs may not be fertile, but I will treat them as if they are. The video was helpful and I will weigh the container to monitor for water loss. I started with equal parts by weight of water and vermiculite.

 

[Leroux2008]

hmm by looking at the picture they look fertile. Very well shaped and white. Usually your infertiles will be yellow and sstart to cave. Ya but just like I said EVEN if their not infertile.. I would keep them just to be on the safe side. Ive read on here of people having chams out together and was watched and no breeding took place but then next thing you know.... they are finding eggs that actually have little guys in them. She had found out by opening them, she thought they were infertile. I personally wouldnt take the risk of opening them ..especially since you KNOW they did breed. I know I found the video great! Before I stumbled upon Chameleon Forums I was watching all of Dez's videos.

 

[allencg101]

keep them all if they are infertile they will mold over and then just take the bad ones over.

 

[kinyonga]

They look fertile to me!

 

[fluxlizard]

Just because they are fertile doesn't necessarily mean they are good.
Other things can go and do go wrong. (insufficient nutrition other than calcium (which looks great in those), too much moisture drowning the eggs, etc).

I do not use ventilation holes and normally they do not mold. I used to use pinholes and weight them and re-add water to bring them up to weight and the whole 9 yards until someone who studied reptile egg incubation basically for a living (at the university and whose studies the past 20 years + have been widely published in scientific journals- probably one of the most knowledgeable if not THE most knowledgable on the topic in the world) laughed at me and asked me how much fresh air I thought eggs were getting buried in the earth!

So I started sealing the containers and never had problems with lack of gas exchange, except with really big lizard eggs (iguanas- eggs almost ping-pong ball sized). But water dragon sized on down, no problem to seal the containers.

 

[Leroux2008]

Flux when the babies start to hatch what do you do? Will they suffocate if no holes were put in?

 

[fluxlizard]

No, you would think so, but no, it is not a problem when they hatch either. I actually forgot about that because I haven't thought about it in years, but at first I was afraid of that as well and it has been a non-issue.

In fact, with bearded dragons (which are much larger than nearly all chameleons when they hatch out and therefore should use more oxygen) sometimes they still have a little bit of umbilical hanging on to their belly when they come out, and when that happens I open the container to check them and remove any that are ready, and the rest with the bit of umbilical I put back in the sealed container until the next day when I check again to see that the umbilical has either been absorbed or dropped off and they are fine- I've never had one suffocate- even when I've been out of town and they may have hatched a day or two before I return and by the time I get home 100% are hatched and waiting in the sealed container they are fine. Very very rarely an individual may take a couple of days of me opening and checking on it and sealing it in again and returning the next day to repeat before the umbilical is gone. So I don't think newly hatched lizards need as much oxygen as we would guess either which kind of makes sense- it must take them a little while to dig out of a hole when they hatch- especially in species like veileds which dig pretty deep holes to lay in if you give them the chance (all the way to the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket filled with earth for example- that must mean tiny hatchlings would have to dig 18" or so sometimes when they hatch! That's so amazing it makes me wonder if wild veileds don't dig so deep when they lay...

I usually use 2.9 cup rubbermaid containers which are about 6" x 6" x 2" deep. Half filled with vermiculite. I incubate up to 16 dragons per container. So that gives you some idea of how much airspace is in the container for 16 babies, and it isn't much. They don't need much.

Actually come to think of it- large lizards may not need as much as we think either- I always put a couple of holes in my shipping boxes for even my smallest lizards, but I've received big lizards including a full grown tegu and iguana in the past that were shipped in completely sealed shipping boxes without holes and they were fine...

 

[kinyonga]

Air in soil in the ground....
"About half of the total mass of soil is made of up vast interconnecting cavities, or holes. These holes are filled with both air, and water"...and..."The air in soils is not exposed to moving air currents, and is much more moist, or humid than atmospheric air. It also tends to be very rich in carbon dioxide, and poor in oxygen "...
http://www.kidsgeo.com/geology-for-kids/0012-air-in-soil.php

"Oxygen: Soil Air: 20.6% Atmosphere: 20.9%"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_gas