Egg bound panther- please advise

[kenya]

My little gravid panther was bred on Halloween and wouldn't eat much during her pregnancy. I got her to eat a few superworms and a few silkworms the whole time and I gave her liquid calcium every other day. She seems now to be eggbound- her eyes are sunken (distress, not dehydration) but her grip is fine and she moves around fine. I have had a large laying bin in with her since around day 15. She started digging a few days ago but didn't dig very far before abandoning the furrow. She has been in seclusion for around two weeks and there was no one around to scare her away from digging (she was in the laundry room and we peeked through the slats in the door at her)

I have a vet that I would like to take her to but the vet closes at 6 and my girlfriend gets off work at 6 or 7 and I don't drive.

I am rather panicked. If I take her to the emergency vet, they aren't experienced with reptiles, especially chams. I called the regular vet that I want to go to and told them what is going on. They basically said that I am out of luck and there isn't much I can do at home. They suggested I bring her in tonight for x rays and said that Oxytocin doesn't work most of the time and surgery would probably be required. I asked them to send dosages of Oxytocin to the e vet just in case I had to go in tonight and they said they would.

I gave my cham a few drops of liquid calcium just now and am going to make a little batch of bug juice for her.

What should I do to try to induce her to lay in the meantime? I will be able to get to the emergency vet tonight after 7 and am not able to make an appointment at the regular vet for the next several days.

I really don't want to lose her. She has lost 10 grams in the last three days. I showered her two days ago but she didn't seem to drink.

Just to reiterate, she is still active and is not acting sick or lethargic but her eyes are sunken.

 

[kinyonga]

I don't think there is much you can do at home either. She needs help quickly though. Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[kenya]

She was put to sleep about an hour ago. She started turning strange colors (looking blanched) and then closed her eyes and refused to open them.

We opted to put her down at the emergency vet and we have her body for egg retrieval and proper burial. We will see if the eggs are okay.

I feel horrible.

 

[panthercham]

Sorry for your loss Kenya. Its always hard to lose one

 

[kinyonga]

I'm sorry to hear that. Too bad you didn't retrieve the eggs while you were there and then the vet could have seen if there was a physical reason for her problem.

 

[kenya]

I'm sorry to hear that. Too bad you didn't retrieve the eggs while you were there and then the vet could have seen if there was a physical reason for her problem.

The vet was not an exotics vet and didn't want to risk destroying the eggs. Devon is a biology student and felt up to the task. I can't distance myself enough to dissect. She is performing the task right now and it would seem that the eggs didn't form shells. They look just like little yolks but we haven't gotten them all the way out so I could be wrong- they could just be very small eggs. We are seeing them through other tissue at the moment.

Thank you for the condolences; I am very sad about this- she was my first panther and this was going to be my first clutch of panthers and the first clutch laid for me. I hope this never happens again.

 

[kinyonga]

I had a feeling that the eggs weren't right. Keep me posted please...this helps me (and everyone else) learn too.

 

[kenya]

I had a feeling that the eggs weren't right. Keep me posted please...this helps me (and everyone else) learn too.

I can post photos if you like

It seems shells weren't formed but I could be wrong. I took over the dissection when it came time to remove eggs. I removed two pouches (Ovaries? Uteri?) containing what looked to be about a dozen yolks each. One had a yellow fluid in it that was a popped yolk. I removed a dozen sticky blobs the size of marbles that are yellow in color and perfectly round from each side. I managed to pop a few but 20 are in a bed of vermiculite now just in case they are actually viable eggs that haven't plumped or something.

It seems that the quick degrading she had was a result of the yolk popping because she was acting fine and then was on deaths door within an hour. It is all I can think of that could have happened.

Photos are forthcoming and opinions on the "eggs" are welcome.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Kenya I am so sorry to hear about your loss. How heartbreaking, and what a sudden turn of events.

 

[kenya]

Three eggs that were fused together.

 

[gregdabender]

Im really sorry to hear about this.....

 

[Silverdusk]

Nikalou I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I wish you the best with the eggs, hopefully you'll have some hatch.

 

[BelgiumLizard]

That is not good news. I wish you my sympathy.

Thanks to shear the picture with us. They are very good and we can learn out of them.

On the look of the eggs and the shape I will say that the eggs are unfertilized .
But let us hope that I am wrong...

Best regards

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Nikki,

Sorry that she didn't make it .

Here's a link to a great article on a chameleon necropsy. You'll see in the photos that the lungs are the vascularized, semi-transparent looking sacks closest to the spine. Your photos show a lot more than usual amount of black colored organs, leading to an assumption that something went wrong there first. She may or may not have died from being eggbound. The eggs appear to be far short of being ready to be laid .

Necropsy article:
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=3

Another necropsy article:
http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum163.html

 

[Cainschams]

Very sorry to hear that Nikki Everyone knows how much you care about these creatures and that you did everything you could.

 

[Kat77]

I'm so sorry Nikki. poor little girl....

 

[kenya]

Howdy Nikki,

Sorry that she didn't make it .

Here's a link to a great article on a chameleon necropsy. You'll see in the photos that the lungs are the vascularized, semi-transparent looking sacks closest to the spine. Your photos show a lot more than usual amount of black colored organs, leading to an assumption that something went wrong there first. She may or may not have died from being eggbound. The eggs appear to be far short of being ready to be laid .

Necropsy article:
http://chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=3

Another necropsy article:
http://homepage.mac.com/exoticdvm/reptile/PhotoAlbum163.html

Very interesting. I assumed it was some sort of septic shock from the popped one, especially judging how quickly she went down hill. The "eggs" didn't even have shells it seems but she was getting liquid calcium glubonate (spelling?) every other day at least.

She was definitely a by-the-book case for being eggbound. She was on day...34? and had started trying to dig a few days prior but stopped.

It is strange that the eggs look partially formed. It is also strange that she degraded to the point of needing euthanasia within an hour when she was acting completely fine before. That is what makes me think the popped egg is the culprit.

As I said before, I hope this never happens again.

 

[smyth]

im sorry for ur loss kenya

 

[Happy Cham]

Nikki, I am so sorry to hear that you lost her! I hope it never happens to you again either!!! (or anyone for that matter) Take care!