Eating Rocks

[listen2justin]

over the past few weeks, i have been occasionally finding substrate in my panther cham's poop. every poop doesn't have it, but i find it here and there. first it was growstones, and this morning i found poop with a small piece of red lava rock in it. he is about a year old. i cup feed. so my question is why would he be going after these rocks? has anyone experienced this with their chams?

 

[Tortdad]

The first thing I think of is the animal has calcium deficiencies.

What bugs are you feeding, what do you feed the bugs, and what type and how often do you use calcium?

Second set of questions is what substraight are you using and why do you have rocks in there? They can cause impaction issues if they can't poop them out.

 

[listen2justin]

The first thing I think of is the animal has calcium deficiencies.

What bugs are you feeding, what do you feed the bugs, and what type and how often do you use calcium?

Second set of questions is what substraight are you using and why do you have rocks in there? They can cause impaction issues if they can't poop them out.

i feed him dubias, supers, phoenix worms, black soldier flies, and hornworms. i gut load with a mix that my reptile shop makes. i dust all the feeders with Repashy Calcium Plus every time. I scaled down my feeding to every other day, so could it be a hunger thing?
I use 60/40 organic soil with growstones. i used the lava rock to cover the soil because he was eating the growstones, but i guess the lava rock wasn't big enough. i'll take those out and use spanish moss to cover the soil.

 

[Sloppysponge]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

You need to fill this out to get a proper response about potential husbandry issues.

 

[kelly_girl199]

i feed him dubias, supers, phoenix worms, black soldier flies, and hornworms. i gut loisodead with a mix that my reptile shop makes. i dust all the feeders with Repashy Calcium Plus every time. I scaled down my feeding to every other day, so could it be a hunger thing?
I use 60/40 organic soil with growstones. i used the lava rock to cover the soil because he was eating the growstones, but i guess the lava rock wasn't big enough. i'll take those out and use spanish moss to cover the soil.

minerals only come from the ground. I would agree with the suggestion that its a deficiency, just not specifically calcium. I just suggested to someone getting on chameleon breeder podcast and listening to Episode 59 with John courtney Smith on Vitamins.There is also another epsode with him on minerals. He has a wealth of information. He is a well-known scientist from the UK.

 

[kelly_girl199]

i feed him dubias, supers, phoenix worms, black soldier flies, and hornworms. i gut load with a mix that my reptile shop makes. i dust all the feeders with Repashy Calcium Plus every time. I scaled down my feeding to every other day, so could it be a hunger thing?
I use 60/40 organic soil with growstones. i used the lava rock to cover the soil because he was eating the growstones, but i guess the lava rock wasn't big enough. i'll take those out and use spanish moss to cover the soil.

alot of gutloads are filled with wheat products.No good. Cricket crack, repashy superload, and bug buffet are some good ones that are organic and plant based. Earth Pro is probably the best BUT its harder to get a hold of and its pricey. Arcadia sells it and as soon s the larger quantity is back in stock I will be ordering that as well.Ihave a mix of four gutloads at the moment on top of fresh fruits and veggies. Its really great you re offering a variety in his diet.

 

[listen2justin]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male Ambilobe Panther. 1 year old.
• Handling - once a week
• Feeding - I feed him dubias, supers, phoenix worms, black soldier flies, and hornworms. i gut load with a mix that my reptile shop makes. I scaled down my feeding to every other day.
• Supplements - i dust all the feeders with Repashy Calcium Plus every time.
• Watering - MistKing 4 times a day
• Fecal Description - normally brown with white urates, sometimes with a light orange shade. i have been occasionally finding pieces of dark brown poop with the rocks in them, those have no urates.
• History - Bough from Kammers at 4 months old.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen with glass door. 5 ft high, 30" wide, 26" deep
• Lighting - lightyourreptile quad fixture with a plant bulb and a 12% acadia, jungle dawn spotlight LED, 75w heat bulb. all run for 13 hours a day
• Temperature - 76-89 F. coldest at night is 76 F
• Humidity - Hygrometer reads 60 at lowest 90 at highest
• Plants - live plants. pothos, rattlesnake plant, bromeliads
• Placement - living room
• Location - Anaheim, CA

Current Problem - eating rocks.

 

[listen2justin]

minerals only come from the ground. I would agree with the suggestion that its a deficiency, just not specifically calcium. I just suggested to someone getting on chameleon breeder podcast and listening to Episode 59 with John courtney Smith on Vitamins.There is also another epsode with him on minerals. He has a wealth of information. He is a well-known scientist from the UK.

have you had this happen with your chams? i was thinking he was ingesting the rocks on accident. i didn't even think it could be on purpose. i will check that podcast out too. thanks!

 

[kelly_girl199]

have you had this happen with your chams? i was thinking he was ingesting the rocks on accident. i didn't even think it could be on purpose. i will check that podcast out too. thanks!

I saw it happen with my first chameleon. It ate dirt in a pot twice that I saw.

 

[kelly_girl199]

have you had this happen with your chams? i was thinking he was ingesting the rocks on accident. i didn't even think it could be on purpose. i will check that podcast out too. thanks!

I am sure they do it out in the wild to. Animals are not dumb. They know when their bodies are lacking something. Seriously those podcasts are amazing. Past few weeks I just listen to them and refresh myself on some things. If I were you I would look into new gutloads. and give him some wild caught insects.

 

[kelly_girl199]

m

 

[kelly_girl199]

and I would switch your rocks over to larger sizes so he cant eat them. I would suggest moss to cover the dirst bc thats what I use. BUT he may eat that too.

 

[listen2justin]

and I would switch your rocks over to larger sizes so he cant eat them. I would suggest moss to cover the dirst bc thats what I use. BUT he may eat that too.

yah i'm gonna take out the lava rocks and cover with spanish moss, cuz the pot is hanging on a branch so i can't make it too heavy.

 

[JacksJill]

The why can be a mystery but it's worth it to cover your soil. If rocks are too heavy use pieces of window screen cut to fit around the plant and inside the pot. Makes it harder for feeders to escape into the pots as well.

 

[kelly_girl199]

take out the lava

The why can be a mystery but it's worth it to cover your soil. If rocks are too heavy use pieces of window screen cut to fit around the plant and inside the pot. Makes it harder for feeders to escape into the pots as well.

never thought about screen

 

[JacksJill]

I know some people don't think covering your soil is important but if you have a chameleon with the inclination an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[Sloppysponge]

Maybe he just want to try a couple

There are people who get addicted to eating the strangest things...

But on a serious note I second the podcast, that is one big chunk of knowledge, and the best part is all you have to do is listen.

For a gut load I use bug burger and super load, and some fresh vegetables and fruits.

I also dust with calcium plus, I have not noticed my chams doing this at all.

Don't know if this helps you, and by the way nice cage size, would you mind sharing a photo?

 

[listen2justin]

i'll snap a pic of my cage and post. i had it custom made and he basically made it exactly to how i wanted it. thanks for all the help! i'm gonna get rid of those rocks tonight.

 

[kinyonga]

You need to get all the growstones out ASAP...I believe they are white..right? For some reason chameleons are attracted to white things. The lava rock needs to go too...ASAP.If your chameleon continues to eat the stones and lava rock sooner or later he will end up!impacted and dead.

Don't use moss...it can cause impaction too.
Some soils and some sands seem to pass through them without causing impaction but the problem is figuring out which ones work without creating an impaction...which is why we tell people not to use a substrate as a rule.

I also recommend adding greens (dandelions, kale, endive, escarole, etc), veggies (carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, squash, etc) and a bit of fruit (berries, melon, apples, pears, etc) to the diet of crickets, roaches, superworms, etc.
It's thought that chameleons eat soil and rocks, etc because they are missing nutrients in their diet...as was already said.

Hope all goes well!

 

[listen2justin]

You need to get all the growstones out ASAP...I believe they are white..right? For some reason chameleons are attracted to white things. The lava rock needs to go too...ASAP.If your chameleon continues to eat the stones and lava rock sooner or later he will end up!impacted and dead.

Don't use moss...it can cause impaction too.
Some soils and some sands seem to pass through them without causing impaction but the problem is figuring out which ones work without creating an impaction...which is why we tell people not to use a substrate as a rule.

I also recommend adding greens (dandelions, kale, endive, escarole, etc), veggies (carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, squash, etc) and a bit of fruit (berries, melon, apples, pears, etc) to the diet of crickets, roaches, superworms, etc.
It's thought that chameleons eat soil and rocks, etc because they are missing nutrients in their diet...as was already said.

Hope all goes well!

Thanks for the help! will definitely get back on adding those things you said to the gut load. and yes, the growstones are white. actually tonight, as i was taking out the lava rock from the pot, he had the audacity to come up and go straight for a growstone and ate one and then looks right at me as he was chewing and swallowing it! I'll keep an i out and hope he passes it soon.