Eating leaves…stripping plants bare…

K

kinyonga

Chameleon Queen
In this thread, @MissSkittles posted about dear Stella stripping plants bare.. As of yet we still have no concrete answer as to why, veiled females in particular strip plants bare! And it’s still said by some that they can’t/shouldn’t have greens and such, as part of their diet because it’s not possible for them to digest the leaves because they don’t have the right digestive enzymes and the on,y reason I know of that has been put forward is that they need the River to push soft insects through the system.

If the reason is to push soft insects through, then why do only the females strip the plants bare while males mostly nibble?

Could anyone who has a veiled chameleon please post in a new thread im going to start now to let me know what their veileds do please?
 
My girl used to really munch on her plants, I’d often find multiple bite marks over leaves. She would be down to eat new shoot’s up to massive leaves. It’s strange but I’ve noticed in the last few months she has stopped with eating her plants, I haven’t found a bite marks in quite a while.
 
Ghostbirb said:
My girl used to really munch on her plants, I’d often find multiple bite marks over leaves. She would be down to eat new shoot’s up to massive leaves. It’s strange but I’ve noticed in the last few months she has stopped with eating her plants, I haven’t found a bite marks in quite a while.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting! Maybe we can figure it out if we all work on it!
 
When I had pothos in my female's enclosure, she didn't touch it initially. When she was receptive and producing eggs that is when she would chow down. Sometimes taking a bite and then eventually eating the whole plant. This was about 4 years ago now; she has not had a pothos since. When she free ranges outside on the hibiscus, she automatically starts eating. First the buds and then the new growth. It didn't matter what time of year, so she doesn't get much outside time. She would eat so much that she would often spend a good half hr with her nose up. She now has Fittonia's only and she just nibbles. I have not observed large pieces of plant material. Most of it is digested. Now, she doesn't really go through a normal cycle, so it is hard to tell. She is always hungry lol!
 
I would also add that one of my males has eaten many hibiscus leaves over time that the tree had to be taken out. He was constantly eating the new growth, so the plant was not thriving. This was probably between 1-2 years old; he has since slowed down. My other two nibble and eat any flowers that pop up. They do not touch pothos either, just my female.
 
Stella has always been a heavy plant eater. She once had a large hibiscus that she ate all of the leaves off. She did let them regrow before starting in again. When I give her smaller hibiscus, she eats them down to nothing, leaving bare twigs that quickly die. That is her favorite and a rare treat to give her is a hibiscus flower. It doesn’t matter what the plant is, she at least tastes it several times.
Grumpy used to nibble a bit on her plants, but in moderation. She too favored hibiscus. It must be quite tasty.
Both of my males, Hammlet and now Lucky have little to no interest in even the smallest nibbles of their plants. I’ve even offered hibiscus flowers and they were ignored.
Makes me wonder if it’s the chameleon’s form of pregnancy-related pica. But then Grumpy went a couple of years without producing eggs and now Stella is at 3 years without eggs. Perhaps there’s a different hormone at work here…or a neurotransmitter.
 
Is it possible that pothos or other vines look like plants they find while in the wild? Maybe they have extra vitamins the females need mainly while producing eggs, and that's why males only nibble on the plants 🤷‍♀️ (kinda like what @MissSkittles was saying)

My panther would occasionally nibble on pothos plants, but pretty much pulled out all of the roots from the wandering jew. He would chow down on hibiscus flowers after he licked some of the pollen out of them.
 
Spaghetti seems to have some plants he likes more than others. He has completely stripped a small money tree. That’s his favorite. He also loves pathos and monstera. He doesn’t strip them bare though. They always always always have bite marks and chunks missing. I will search my photos as I’m sure I have some
 
One of my earlier male Chamaeleo calypatratus used to clear entire small Ficus Tree's of leaf mater. That making male Chamaeleo calypatratus capable leaf consumers. That is some evidence of male Chamaeleo calypatratus living on a substantial vegetarian diet.

Veggies!

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich
 
Completely agree! I was always curious if being “caged” would be the stressor for this behavior. You see similar behavior with other animals as well. Because when Bella was in an enclosure she stripped down lots of plants, sometimes demonstrative right in front of me. Once she went free range, she never touched a leave again. That was my starting point.
 
I do think taste is a part of it, at least for Stella. When I give her a hibiscus flower, she comes right over to it the same as she does when I’m putting bugs in her feeing station. Boredom might have played a part in her latest pothos victim. The plant was at just the right place for munching as she basked and I haven’t seen her do quite so much damage to a pothos before.
Sonny13 said:
Completely agree! I was always curious if being “caged” would be the stressor for this behavior. You see similar behavior with other animals as well. Because when Bella was in an enclosure she stripped down lots of plants, sometimes demonstrative right in front of me. Once she went free range, she never touched a leave again. That was my starting point.
Click to expand...
This is really interesting. It makes some sense when you think about it. Most captive animals demonstrate some type of stress related behaviors, like pacing usually. But then why is it only veileds and not other species of chameleons that eat vegetation? Most of the other species are from Africa or Madagascar, while veileds are from Yemen. Maybe there’s a geographical difference. Do we know if chameleons from other areas of the world (Mediterranean, India, etc) eat any vegetation?
I think one idea was that it may be related to hydration and their dry season. But going by that, wouldn’t we expect the Namaqua chameleon to also take advantage of vegetation for hydration?
 
MissSkittles said:
I do think taste is a part of it, at least for Stella. When I give her a hibiscus flower, she comes right over to it the same as she does when I’m putting bugs in her feeing station. Boredom might have played a part in her latest pothos victim. The plant was at just the right place for munching as she basked and I haven’t seen her do quite so much damage to a pothos before.

This is really interesting. It makes some sense when you think about it. Most captive animals demonstrate some type of stress related behaviors, like pacing usually. But then why is it only veileds and not other species of chameleons that eat vegetation? Most of the other species are from Africa or Madagascar, while veileds are from Yemen. Maybe there’s a geographical difference. Do we know if chameleons from other areas of the world (Mediterranean, India, etc) eat any vegetation?
I think one idea was that it may be related to hydration and their dry season. But going by that, wouldn’t we expect the Namaqua chameleon to also take advantage of vegetation for hydration?
Click to expand...
I always like this topic, raises so many questions and just little answers, mostly speculation. Completely agree with your theory as well, I think (and have seen some posts about it) the poop analyses of wild chameleons could partly answer these questions, that we could relate to their behavior in captivity.
 
As for if they are digesting or not, thats easy to see, just float the poo. Its either going to have a bunch of undigested leaves, or just the indigestible cellulose fiber just like us humans.

In tegu news, if he eats just meat or just bugs, he gets very runny poo. If you sneak in leaves and fruit, its back to logs.

As for male veiled, Mine only hate hibiscus flowers, and was a filthy bark chewer. He never really stripped leaves. maybe nibbled on some fresh growth, but never mature leaves.
 
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@MissSkittles said “I think one idea was that it may be related to hydration and their dry season. But going by that, wouldn’t we expect the Namaqua chameleon to also take advantage of vegetation for hydration?”…
Look at this…”This species also regularly consumes plant matter in the wild, and is one of several chameleon species recorded doing so. Plant matter may account for up to 29.1% of their diet amongst coastal populations and 20% amongst those inland, although an average of 2.8% for coastal and 1.5% for inland populations are more common”…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namaqua_chameleon#:~:text=This species also regularly consumes,chameleon species recorded doing so.

And she said..”Do we know if chameleons from other areas of the world (Mediterranean, India, etc) eat any vegetation?”… there is documentation for several species that eat vegetation from other areas…I’ll see if I can find it again.

@Sonny13 said…”I was always curious if being “caged” would be the stressor for this behavior”…so then are the world ones who do this leaf eating doing it because of stress?

@nightanole said…”As for if they are digesting or not, thats easy to see, just float the poo. It’s either going to have a bunch of undigested leaves, or just the indigestible cellulose fiber just like us humans.”…some animals eat leaves with them not coming out digested for what is said to be on purpose to get rid of parasites. Couldn’t chameleons be doing this too.
 
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