EATING DIRT!! won't eat bugs!

[CharlieRae]

LOL I think he has been eating outside the last three weeks. This would explain why he is not dropping weight as well.

Your lighting is perfect. In a T5HO dual fixture with a single reflector for both bulbs you would want to use the 12% bulb and then your distance to basking on a screen topped enclosure is going to be 7-8 inches for a 3 UVI. Keep in mind your going to get much higher levels of uvb if the fixture is not being reduced like it is on the screen cage. I can not give you exacts on distance through the wired enclosure because I do not have a similar fixture to test with my solarmeter.

If he were sick and lethargic I would be really concerned with the not taking feeders. But he is not showing any physical signs of health issues.

I am really thinking it was a combo of being in too small of an enclosure and the fact that he was able to see his CUC in the bottom. I bet he was picking them off and leaving the feeders. Since he knew they were there he kept going after the dirt. With his age and the fact that he is not losing grams I would not be concerned yet. See how he does when you move him to the other enclosure your building. But try different feeding methods as well. I typically cup feed and hand feed. My boys love when I put silkworms on branches and they go after them. (don't do this with hornworms though) Gives them that hunting feeling. Flying feeders like bsf might get his attention too.

I actually wasn't overly concerned until he stopped pooping. I hope he is eating bugs outside. But again, no poops so I don't know. lol
I have only ever used the feeder on the side of his enclosure to give bugs. Except for the black soldier flies that I turned loose in there a couple months ago. I didn't see him eat those, but that doesn't mean anything, since I have no idea how many there were & they were flying around.lol So in the new enclosure we will try 'free roaming' his food.

 

[CharlieRae]

@CharlieRae ok so being as thorough as possible.... So see my feedback in red bold.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species-Ambilobe Panther, sex-Male, age-9 months. How long has it been in your care-Since the 1st week of March.
  He weighed 121grams on Sept 18 & on Sept 29th also weighed 121grams. So he is holding his weight... this is good and 121 grams is good for a 9 month old. Makes me think he had to have been eating something or he would have been losing grams.
  
  
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon- almost daily. He is quite social & likes to hang out. I remove him from his enclosure & let hi free roam in my living room. Or he will go outside with me & hang out on my shoulder as I water plants. Wonderful. So he is still acting normal.
  
  
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham-All sizes of crickets. All sizes of silkworms & the moths. All sizes of dubia. BSFL & the flies. Hornworms. Waxworms. Superworms. Grasshoppers. I currently have surinam roaches, red runner roaches & blaberus fusca roaches that are in his feeder that he won't eat. What amount- unlimited since I got him. What is the schedule-daily. How are you gut-loading your feeders-all kinds of veggies, greens & fruit... With the feeders... What method of feeding have you tried? Will he take something if he is outside of the enclosure and you try to handfeed? They can go through a picky stage but usually they pick one feeder they prefer and refuse all others. Additionally at this age some can do a curb back on feeders on their own, for Panthers at 9 months they would be on an every other day feeding of 5 feeders and this would kick down to 3 feeders at 12 months old.
  
  
• Supplements - Repti-calcium without D3-every feeding. Bee Pollen-Every Feeding Repashy Calcium Plus-2x a month. These will work. I really like the arcadia supplements as well.
  
  
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use-misting & a dripper. Dripper runs from 11AM-5PM. How often and how long to you mist-2x a day 60 seconds each time. once before lights on & once when lights off. Do you see your chameleon drinking-yes... I would extend at least the evening misting to 3 minutes... Give him additional time to drink. and this will up ambient humidity at night.
  
  
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings-Will post picture of a dropping from Sept. 30th. I broke it open & it was full of dirt. Had not pooped before that for 10 days & has not pooped since. . Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites-no. I took him to the vet on Sept. 29th & she would not test him. So a fecal would be my advice... Just to rule out an issue of parasites causing the issues.
  
  
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - He was in a bioactive 18x18x36 glass vivarium with 2 small fans on top until 2 weeks ago when I removed him & put into a wire ferret cage with potted plants covered in a thick layer of rocks. His new enclosure will be completed by this weekend. A smaller enclosure can contribute to changes in behavior. When they are not happy it can impact them... Curious if this was impacting the lack of eating the feeders. Since the move to the large wire one has eating at all improved?
  
  
• Lighting - What brand-T5HO linear bulb ordered from Pangea. I do not remember the brand. 1 BR30 65W bulb. What is your daily lighting schedule-lights on @ 7AM. Lights off @ 7PM. Please double check the UVB light for me. On the end of the bulb it will say what the bulb strength is. If the UVB is not correct this can impact them in many ways.
  
  
• Temperature - What temp range have you created? cage floor-I have never checked the cage floor. In his bioactive the temp about 3/4 way up was 70-72*F. I'm getting the same temp in the ferret cage. basking spot-77*F. Lowest overnight temp-62 is what we keep our house temps at. His cage would cool to the same temps in the bioactive & in the ferret cage. How do you measure these temps-I measure the basking spot with a heat gun. I have a hygrometer/thermostat in the cage for ambient temp. Basking spot can be as high as 80. get a Wired probe gauge for the basking spot hook the probe directly below the fixture on the branch.. It may be running a bit colder then your thinking because a heat gun measures surface temps only.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels-30-40%. How are you creating and maintaining these levels-Misting What do you use to measure humidity-digital hygrometer. 30-40% is a bit low for a Panther. Your wanting more like 50-60% during the day with a boost at night above 75%. I would consider adding a cool mist humidifier to the room he is in. This will up ambient temps. I would not run it into the enclosure during the day though this would pose a risk of a respiratory infection. But in the room is fine and you will be able to achieve higher ambient levels this way. At night fogging is great because it will help hydrate him.
  
  
• Plants - Are you using live plants-yes. If so, what kind-Pothos. Nerve Plants. Polka Dot plants. Schefflera. Money tree.
  
  
• Placement - Where is your cage located-Living room in a corner away from windows & vents. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor- both bioactive & ferret cage 5.5ft
  
  
• Location - Where are you geographically located-Northern Wyoming

Current Problem - Will not eat feeder bugs. Seeks out & eats dirt. Will dig through or push aside anything covering the dirt. Problem started in late August. I took him to the vet Sept 30th. She said he did not feel like he had an impaction. She would not do a fecal. She said if he isn't improving in a couple weeks bring him back. I will not take him back to her. She did not know his sex, she tried to argue that he was a she, when he is quite obviously a male. She had to google info on his locale & gave me a print off from reptilemagazine.com
I took him out of the bioactive 2 weeks due to the fact I could not cover the dirt adequately to prevent the dirt eating & it was too small for him.
I attached photos of the cage he is now in. This was an in progress picture & more plants & sticks have been added.
The poop was very small. The size of my finger nail. Urates were very orange. Urate is showing signs of dehydration but this can be misleading because if he is not producing stools because he is not eating the urate can be held longer which can also cause it to look like he is dehydrated.

He was only eating superworms from around June to mid-August. When I discovered those are not a good staple I stopped giving them. That was when he started eating dirt & refusing other feeders.
Eating has not improved since moving him to a larger enclosure, UNLESS he is indeed eating outside bugs
I bought a cool mist humidifier & last night was the 1st night running it. I also wrapped the enclosure in a plastic shower curtain to hold in the fog. I will get a temp gauge with a probe, thanks!

 

[Beman]

I actually wasn't overly concerned until he stopped pooping. I hope he is eating bugs outside. But again, no poops so I don't know. lol
I have only ever used the feeder on the side of his enclosure to give bugs. Except for the black soldier flies that I turned loose in there a couple months ago. I didn't see him eat those, but that doesn't mean anything, since I have no idea how many there were & they were flying around.lol So in the new enclosure we will try 'free roaming' his food.

And I would not free roam roaches but things like silks they enjoy the hunt and those don't have a death grip like hornworms do.

 

[Beman]

He was only eating superworms from around June to mid-August. When I discovered those are not a good staple I stopped giving them. That was when he started eating dirt & refusing other feeders.
Eating has not improved since moving him to a larger enclosure, UNLESS he is indeed eating outside bugs
I bought a cool mist humidifier & last night was the 1st night running it. I also wrapped the enclosure in a plastic shower curtain to hold in the fog. I will get a temp gauge with a probe, thanks!

Yeah supers can do this to them. THey get hooked on them. They should be about 10% of the total diet if you feed them. I do not feed them at all for this exact reason.
But like I said I believe he was picking off his CUC otherwise you would have seen a weight loss.
They are pretty opportunistic outside. Mine will pick off anything he can when he is in the outdoor enclosure including ants.

 

[CharlieRae]

And I would not free roam roaches but things like silks they enjoy the hunt and those don't have a death grip like hornworms do.

Oh heck no to the roaches wandering in there. lol. They give me infestation anxiety? But I will try the silkworms.
I swear, this guy is like having toddlers that will only eat cheetos & yogurt all over again.?‍
I did so much research for months, I thought this would be a piece of cake. bahahahaaa

I really appreciate all your time & help!

 

[Beman]

Oh heck no to the roaches wandering in there. lol. They give me infestation anxiety? But I will try the silkworms.
I swear, this guy is like having toddlers that will only eat cheetos & yogurt all over again.?‍
I did so much research for months, I thought this would be a piece of cake. bahahahaaa

I really appreciate all your time & help!

LOL see I have the opposite issue. All mine want to do is eat... I have Veileds and they are total toddlers everything goes in the mouth so I totally get it.

They are by far the best animals but yes not at all a piece of cake... I keep asking myself why I have three now. lol

Your doing great though. I would tell you if he looked off. Keep doing weight checks weekly with him and track his weight. Try different things to switch up what he is used to and avoid super worms since this is his weakness.

 

[CharlieRae]

LOL see I have the opposite issue. All mine want to do is eat... I have Veileds and they are total toddlers everything goes in the mouth so I totally get it.

They are by far the best animals but yes not at all a piece of cake... I keep asking myself why I have three now. lol

Your doing great though. I would tell you if he looked off. Keep doing weight checks weekly with him and track his weight. Try different things to switch up what he is used to and avoid super worms since this is his weakness.

Dang kids anyways. lol

I will do those things. Thank!

 

[Guacamole331]

He has been off feeders for roughly 6 weeks. I think he ate 1 cricket on Oct 2nd. He hasn't pooped in 2 weeks. (well, he had a TEENY TINY poop on Sept 30th, it was the size of my fingernail) At this point its a battle of wills I guess. I took him to a vet that I was told is a Herp vet, but actually wasn't. She didn't even know my Chameleon was a male when looking at him.

Oh wow... They is very unfortunate! I was able to get Guac to eat super worms. He went 10 days without pooping and 7 without eating. I force fed a carrot and he pooped then began to eat. Is yours blocked up? Maybe a temperature change? I believe that was the reason guac had this issue because it went from mid 70s to 50s in Michigan within the week. I hope you were able to get yours to eat!

 

[kinyonga]

So is he pooping now on a regular basis?

 

[CharlieRae]

So is he pooping now on a regular basis?

No, he is not. But he is eating crickets again, here & there. So I am still watching him closely. I still dont know whats going on with him.

 

[kinyonga]

If he's pooping he's not likely impacted at least.