Early signs of MBD, please read!

Arainey98

New Member
Female panther
Roughly 9 mo. Old
From petco
Temps range to basking 82, cage temp 76-80
Hum. In good ranges (I keep plastic on the sides of her cage to keep the mist inside I live Up north in dry climate in winter, I make sure to clean it well when cleaning to avoid bacteria as best I can, I truly make sure my cleanings are good)

*why I need help:*
So I have seen her falling occasionally since owning her for the past four months and I’ve been thinking it’s her being clumsy because she was very friendly and loved to crawl on your arms and bask in the windows,(I stuffed Pete moss all over the bottom of her cage so she always has a soft landing) but the weird thing about her is she’s always been a very shy eater. Nothing seemed to work for the first month, not live crickets in dish, butter worms, nothing. She didn’t eat a thing for almost her first month of owning her.
Finally broke her hunger and the last 3 months she’s eaten okay the most she’s ever consumed like 5 crickets and a few worms but she seemed to be vibrant so I thought she was just petite and even with a food dish left out she never wanted much.
Needless to say, the past few weeks she has weirdly become scared of me almost, I took her out like normal and she was in the window and just flared up.
I believe her legs may be slightly limp and she’s been grabbing her own tail when trying to turn around, I just purchased a new 12% UVB T8 bulb to replace, and I have an all in 1 calcium supplement I always dust her food in when I do manage to get her to eat, she actually tends to eat the most when I hand feed her rather then letting the cup sit in her cage.

SO HERES MY PROBLEM:
I just don’t know how to increase her appetite so she is able to get the calcium and D3 she needs to have healthy bones, I work so I don’t have 45 minutes to stand in front of her cage to only get her to end up eating only 3-5 crickets in that time.

With all this info what are your thoughts?

First pic: in cage, recently
Second: a few weeks ago when she flared up all of a sudden and since then seems to not want to go out
Last: When Sophia liked to walk around on the bed like ‘normal’?


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Lennoncham

Chameleon Enthusiast
Can you get some closer pics of her back legs. Kinda looks more like gout then mbd but hard to tell.

What are you gutloading the crickets with?
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
I agree with @Lennoncham ....looks like gout to me...but you need a vet to test to see if it is.

What calcium supplement do you use? Does it have D3 in it? What form of vitamin A does it have in it if any?
What are you feeding/gutloading the insects with?

Basking in a window won't provide UVB for her if the glass is closed.
UVB does not penetrate (most) glass or plastic.
 

Arainey98

New Member
Gutload crickets with this gelatin for them- I make it into ice cubes and it hydrates and feeds.
Her calcium container is second pic posted below- reviews on this product say that if you give them this all in one then I do not need to be doing d3 cycles

She drinks a lot of water I make sure to mist every hour or so and if I’m not home someone else is to do so. I see her drink too

Only a vet can correct gout and what makes you think it would be gout over MBD?

Will update with back leg pics soon
 

Arainey98

New Member
I agree with @Lennoncham ....looks like gout to me...but you need a vet to test to see if it is.

What calcium supplement do you use? Does it have D3 in it? What form of vitamin A does it have in it if any?
What are you feeding/gutloading the insects with?

Basking in a window won't provide UVB for her if the glass is closed.
UVB does not penetrate (most) glass or plastic.
I have a UVB strip light up front of her cage with nothing but a little screen blocking the penetration, good to know about the windows outside- I thought it was better for her
 

Lennoncham

Chameleon Enthusiast
The multi vitamin your using had a lot of vit a and d3 in it. You should be using the calcium plus lo-d.

bug burger isn’t the greatest gutload. I will attach a gutloading image.

it appears to be more in the joint where gout would appear. Mbd is in the bones so the middle of the legs would appear more curved or broken with mbd.
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Arainey98

New Member
*also note*:

This is exclusively my own chameleon but my boyfriend has a male panther too and we share feeder insects, and his male seems to be perfectly healthy.

My female herself actually doesn’t eat many crickets, she really prefers wax worms, BSFL, BBFS, and butterworms
 

SmallToes

Member
There's a plastic sheet when you buy the fixture to keep anything from breaking the bulb, it blocks beneficial rays so be sure it's taken off! I think you've already done so but just making sure.
 

Hashtag ChamLife

Avid Member
I got my first panther from Petco as well... and she had MBD. After months and months of over supplements, liquid calcium (she also was gravid, thus the ton of calcium). It was just like you say; stumbling, falling, general lack of coordination - to the point I put vines next to vines next to vines in a basket weave to prevent her from falling. She at some point broke her front foot. (Which at first looked similar to your girls front right foot in the photo, but that could just be the pic).

Between the who knows how long calcium deficiency and the laying of a clutch... it's taken MONTHS to see an improvement. Let me tell you this, when she started getting better it was day and night difference. Shes now back to being ultra mobile, no issues gripping/climbing, and can move her joints in all the right ways!

Oh, another thing I noticed, is that she wouldn't grip the branches and vines with her tail... but she would often wrap her tail around her foot and just dangle off a branch. She still lays out across the branches, but now she will use her tail as a "safety harness" much like my other chams.

I'm not sure if your girls back leg is "gout" or if it's a busted joint - I'm not a vet so I can't really weigh in other than it doesn't look right.

Here are some photos of Delilah for reference:


Shortly after I got her - 20191102_161739.jpg

Maybe 4-5 months ago -
20191102_161819.jpg


And here's her broken front left paw (photo is 2 months ago or so) -
20191102_161426.jpg


If its MBD you will know from the eggs. When Delilah laid her clutch 2-3 eggs were really oddly shaped compared to the rest.

Hope you guys figure it out and get her all patched up. Best wishes!
 
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