pssh
Avid Member
Being rude doesn't make him want to help the chameleon more. Why be mean?
dwarf transgendered veiled chameleon?
- Thread starter chamfreak24
- Start date
Being rude doesn't make him want to help the chameleon more. Why be mean?
summoner12
Avid Member
Most first timers aren't... so helpful advice is all that is really needed.
Elizadolots
New Member
One thing it seems like people forget is that the media tells us over and over and over that the internet is full of scam artists and liars. "Do not trust what you read on the internet!" is a constant message. Parents are encouraged to drill that message into their children's minds.
No one ever says "Except for this one board about chameleons...everyone there is totally smarter than anyone you know in real life and you should put everything they say ahead of anything the people you actually know and talk to say".
No one.
Now...it does happen to be true that this board has experts that know far more than many vets who advertise themselves as "experienced in chameleons" and it is true that the advice given here is, 99.9% of the time better than what one gets in a pet store regardless of how nice and friendly the owner is.
However, it does take time for the new people to "get" that.
While people do come here looking for help and advice, when that help and advice is aggressively telling them to ignore what people they know are telling them, it's natural for them to react negatively.
Just stating that one is an expert or having others on the board say "oh, he's an expert" is not enough. I can find you "experts" with degrees who swear aliens live among us.
Forgetting that this is an open internet board which attracts regular people who are loaded to the gills with skepticism of the internet is sort of, well....not productive.
This is not the only internet resource about chameleons. If a new poster feels that the responses are untrue because they are so different from what the pet store or vet said, then he or she is likely to just move on in search of a source that makes him/her feel better about themselves. And, they'll find them.
Obviously, that means that the poster will leave and here, the problem will be solved. But it also means there will be a chameleon that suffers.
So...perhaps a bit of understanding that the advice here is not going to immediately be accepted as "from on high" would help.
Just a thought.
No one ever says "Except for this one board about chameleons...everyone there is totally smarter than anyone you know in real life and you should put everything they say ahead of anything the people you actually know and talk to say".
No one.
Now...it does happen to be true that this board has experts that know far more than many vets who advertise themselves as "experienced in chameleons" and it is true that the advice given here is, 99.9% of the time better than what one gets in a pet store regardless of how nice and friendly the owner is.
However, it does take time for the new people to "get" that.
While people do come here looking for help and advice, when that help and advice is aggressively telling them to ignore what people they know are telling them, it's natural for them to react negatively.
Just stating that one is an expert or having others on the board say "oh, he's an expert" is not enough. I can find you "experts" with degrees who swear aliens live among us.
Forgetting that this is an open internet board which attracts regular people who are loaded to the gills with skepticism of the internet is sort of, well....not productive.
This is not the only internet resource about chameleons. If a new poster feels that the responses are untrue because they are so different from what the pet store or vet said, then he or she is likely to just move on in search of a source that makes him/her feel better about themselves. And, they'll find them.
Obviously, that means that the poster will leave and here, the problem will be solved. But it also means there will be a chameleon that suffers.
So...perhaps a bit of understanding that the advice here is not going to immediately be accepted as "from on high" would help.
Just a thought.
summoner12
Avid Member
If you went to a scientist who studies the possibility of aliens existing, and he said he believes they do, would you say 'no, my church pastor says they don't, because god only made us humans' or would you say 'really? why do you think that? because I believe otherwise, based on... yadda yadda.'?
the difference between the two responses is that one doesn't care what the 'expert' has to say, and the other is looking for more ideas on the subject. It is healthy to question what you are told, but when more than two or three people agree with the original information given, and they are credible people, you might take the advice.
You don't go to someone (or forum) looking for advice, with a closed mind.
This forum is setup in a way that allows a new user (or older members) to determine if someone is credible or not. There are reputation blocks up at the top right, your post count and the date you joined the forum is displyed AND you have the option to read someones public comments on their profile, you can also read their profile to get a feel for the person AND we have signatures where a lot of members share what types and quantities of the species they keep. That helps you understand if the person might have a clue if you are asking about a specific species. This all can tell you with an easy quick look if someone's post is credible or not. When I read a post, the FIRST thing I do is look at their post count and date joined. This preps me for thier understanding of the hobby. YES, people with a low post count and recent membership aren't morons... I understand we all start somewhere, and not everyone started here.
If you take a look at a couple basic tools that are provided I think most people can determine the info they are being told is true or false.
Elizadolots
New Member
Well..yes, I believe there are thousands of internet boards based on this very premise...
"closed" no, but "skeptical" yes...that's the problem. Skepticism is intelligent, reasonable and actually very important. Put healthy skepticism up against "I'm an internet board expert" and what do you get?
Really...step back and pretend you discovered an interest in raising newts. You have a store that has had newts for the 3 years you've been visiting and you finally buy one, you take their advice on how to set up the enclosure. Then you think he's looking a bit off, so you do what everyone under the age of 60 does and grab the computer to get info...you get the NEWT board and the NEWT experts tell you to just toss everything the store owner said to do.....
What do you do?
I suspect most would respond defensively and go back to the store for help.
Isn't that what's happened here?
[sarcasm]Yeah...because the newbie with the problem knows all about the coding system[/sarcasm] (I had been here a year before I worked that out)
The newbie is not going to read profiles.
If you have an imaginary "new internet poster" that does these things, that's fun for you, but it's not realistic.
No, really...you maybe don't venture out there to the outer realms of the internet, but I've seen convincing websites which support the idea that the United States is, in fact, housing aliens who crashed here decades ago.
Your idea that people can figure it out is colored by your belief that it's true, the people here are good. While I recognize that now, it did take time for me to accept it and I have no problem with others being skeptical. Skepticism on the internet is a good thing. Making people feel bad for health skepticism is not. It's doomed to drive people away.
morpheon
New Member
To Chamfreak24: You have some of the highest rated members of the forum trying to help you and your chameleon. You should listen to them. According to the reputation system, Chris Anderson is ranked 2nd out of 11,100 members. Summoner12 is ranked 9th and Pssh is 39th.
These guys know what they are talking about and it is pointless for me to say "yes they are right" because your case is something VERY easy to diagnose, so they don't need anyone to confirm what they said!
Now, you may be misting your chameleon like any other chameleon should be, and i believe you are trying to feed him like a normal chameleon. The problem is your chameleon is NOT normal. He is in poor health and he needs to drink A LOT MORE than a healthy chameleon. He also needs to build up some fat, so feeding him more insects and more fatter insects is also important.
Now, good night!
These guys know what they are talking about and it is pointless for me to say "yes they are right" because your case is something VERY easy to diagnose, so they don't need anyone to confirm what they said!
Now, you may be misting your chameleon like any other chameleon should be, and i believe you are trying to feed him like a normal chameleon. The problem is your chameleon is NOT normal. He is in poor health and he needs to drink A LOT MORE than a healthy chameleon. He also needs to build up some fat, so feeding him more insects and more fatter insects is also important.
Now, good night!
Elizadolots
New Member
I'll go it one better and say that if Chris Anderson says it's true, it's true so it should be believed.
But really...put yourself in the other person's position. I've actually engaged in posting battles with Chris Anderson. He did not earn my respect by just posting that he thought something was true and his signature and profile indicated he was an expert.
"going for a PHD" doesn't impress me in the least....what Chris Anderson has posted and done, does.
That took time (and, I'm sure Chris Anderson would say it was not a pleasant process from his point of view).
One thing you might do, Chamfreak, is hit the profiles of the people who've posted here (you can hit mine, but it will bore you, but hey...go for it) and check out their personal websites. You'll find that some of these people have been raising and caring for and breeding chameleons for years/decades. They are far more obsessed with chameleons than any vet who also has to care for hamsters, pugs, cats, rabbits, etc....
They do know what they are talking about and they are people who can help you. I understand it's sort of hard, but as someone who's lost chameleons due to listening to the store folk...I say, give it a chance.
But really...put yourself in the other person's position. I've actually engaged in posting battles with Chris Anderson. He did not earn my respect by just posting that he thought something was true and his signature and profile indicated he was an expert.
"going for a PHD" doesn't impress me in the least....what Chris Anderson has posted and done, does.
That took time (and, I'm sure Chris Anderson would say it was not a pleasant process from his point of view).
One thing you might do, Chamfreak, is hit the profiles of the people who've posted here (you can hit mine, but it will bore you, but hey...go for it) and check out their personal websites. You'll find that some of these people have been raising and caring for and breeding chameleons for years/decades. They are far more obsessed with chameleons than any vet who also has to care for hamsters, pugs, cats, rabbits, etc....
They do know what they are talking about and they are people who can help you. I understand it's sort of hard, but as someone who's lost chameleons due to listening to the store folk...I say, give it a chance.
summoner12
Avid Member
You just went on a rant about how people shouldn't believe what they read on new message board and here you are telling this new member to believe... Why should he trust you? You crack me up.
withlime
New Member
That must have been very frustrating for him.
withlime
New Member
This chameleon is very sick. You can see how thin and dehydrated he is. Also, his coloring suggests there may be more problems. Please follow the other's advice about feeding, hydrating, and getting a fecal test.
Elizadolots
New Member
You just went on a rant about how people shouldn't believe what they read on new message board and here you are telling this new member to believe... Why should he trust you? You crack me up.
Yes, but I'm doing it from the perspective that I understand it's hard to believe the person on the internet over the person you know. I'm suggesting he take some time to "check references". I'm not just saying "I don't know why you won't believe me!"
It's possibly a subtle difference from the perspective of someone who already believes in the experts here, but it's an important difference from the perspective of someone who is understandably skeptical. Acknowledging that someone has a valid reason for skepticism can go a long way to helping them get past it. Just telling them they are wrong can trigger defensiveness.
Julirs
New Member
I am a very nice person. I am known for being a nice person. BUT...I am sick and tired of people here whining about people not being nice.
Facts are facts. People answer posts because they want to help, and to a degree because they are tired of seeing and hearing about tortured chameleons.
The cham in this post is in VERY bad shape. Malnourished and dehydrated. It does not matter if anyone is nice. If the OP wants to help his cham he will listen.
Facts are facts. People answer posts because they want to help, and to a degree because they are tired of seeing and hearing about tortured chameleons.
The cham in this post is in VERY bad shape. Malnourished and dehydrated. It does not matter if anyone is nice. If the OP wants to help his cham he will listen.
glaceauz
New Member
regardless of whether or not you should believe people on the forums, this isn't the time or the place to discuss it. this person came here for advice on their cham, and advice was given. if they want to believe and use that, that's great. if they don't, then it sucks to say but there's nothing we can do about it. so this little feud is pointless. btw, i agree with chris, he does look malnourished and dehydrated and should see a vet asap. hope this helps
morpheon
New Member
Facts are facts, this is right, but people have their own tendancy to get (or not) things personnal, weither is has been said nicely or not. This is what Eliza is talking about when she mentionned the people's defenses.
There is also a good way and a bad way to point out facts. Here, i believe Chris is not guilty at all for saying the facts in the way he did. Maybe it could have been better since there is always room for improvement, but it wasn't bad at all. I, for myself, have been guilty of saying hard but true facts in the past, and even though i was right, i should have said it in a better way.
The main idea, to me, is to be as nice as possible, but as honest as possible by not avoiding to say the truth. However, there is a part that doesn't belong to us: the subjective perception of the reader. Now, if you say something nice enough and the reader still gets mad, you have nothing to be ashamed of. The bottom line is: do your best, get what you deserve, and don't mind what you don't deserve. In this case, Chris did well, he wasn't believed, but he has nothing to be ashamed of, period.
I am just trying to clarify the situation between different opinions and i do not hate any of the previous posters, so please don't take it personal! Chris, Summer, Eliza, Julirs, i all like you very much!
There is also a good way and a bad way to point out facts. Here, i believe Chris is not guilty at all for saying the facts in the way he did. Maybe it could have been better since there is always room for improvement, but it wasn't bad at all. I, for myself, have been guilty of saying hard but true facts in the past, and even though i was right, i should have said it in a better way.
The main idea, to me, is to be as nice as possible, but as honest as possible by not avoiding to say the truth. However, there is a part that doesn't belong to us: the subjective perception of the reader. Now, if you say something nice enough and the reader still gets mad, you have nothing to be ashamed of. The bottom line is: do your best, get what you deserve, and don't mind what you don't deserve. In this case, Chris did well, he wasn't believed, but he has nothing to be ashamed of, period.
I am just trying to clarify the situation between different opinions and i do not hate any of the previous posters, so please don't take it personal! Chris, Summer, Eliza, Julirs, i all like you very much!
FFSTRescue
New Member
As Julirs wisely stated, facts are facts, so what's with the insults? I don't care about reading them so please PM each other if you feel the need to do so, it just pointlessly lengthens a thread that is about an ill chameleon in need of medical attention.
ChamFreak, you came to the right place, and yes, people are correct about your chameleon's state of health, as many people on here know more than many veterinarians, because knowledge comes from experience. Feel free to PM me or any of us that you feel comfortable with for any specific questions you may have, if you want to avoid these types of threads, we are all here to help new owners and chameleons. Good luck to you.
ChamFreak, you came to the right place, and yes, people are correct about your chameleon's state of health, as many people on here know more than many veterinarians, because knowledge comes from experience. Feel free to PM me or any of us that you feel comfortable with for any specific questions you may have, if you want to avoid these types of threads, we are all here to help new owners and chameleons. Good luck to you.
dondeb562
New Member
I would have to agree with the others on the over all visual health concerns that were stated in this thread. That chameleon is for sure very thin and dehydrated. There looks to be either complete neglect of proper care with this guy or he has something going on internally which is causing the problem (lack of growth and appearance which could be a birth defect that would not be curable). I would have to suggest to get him to a experienced reptile vet and get a check up.
