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Congrats, they look good and wish the best for you and them. I think I recall one of parsonii experts saying nobody in Europe was breeding them? If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but if so, I would take their word for it. There is a good chance they are CH though, which would make sense(wild female comes in pregnant). WC would likely be more beaten up. My Parsons is CH and aside from the possibility of something popping up that was passed on from the wild female, they seem no more difficult than CBs. WC are notoriously hard to keep alive from talking to people that have taken them on, but I don't think that's the case here. Good luck!
 
jamest0o0 said:
Congrats, they look good and wish the best for you and them. I think I recall one of parsonii experts saying nobody in Europe was breeding them? If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but if so, I would take their word for it. There is a good chance they are CH though, which would make sense(wild female comes in pregnant). WC would likely be more beaten up. My Parsons is CH and aside from the possibility of something popping up that was passed on from the wild female, they seem no more difficult than CBs. WC are notoriously hard to keep alive from talking to people that have taken them on, but I don't think that's the case here. Good luck!
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They very well could be CH. No way to know for certain one way or another. Someone could be hush-hush about breeding them, or they were plucked from a tree. I can only go off of what I was told. I made sure to get fecals done before bringing them home and made sure they’re eating and growing at a steady rate.
 
GoodKarma19 said:
They're lovely animals, but I strongly disagree with posting videos on a public platform of the two of them being housed together. People will get ideas.
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I thought about this and worried about this too. It’s exactly why I included the disclaimer in the video. Unfortunately there’s only so much I can do to prevent people from misinterpreting information while still being transparent about how I keep baby chameleons :/
 
Gingero said:
I thought about this and worried about this too. It’s exactly why I included the disclaimer in the video. Unfortunately there’s only so much I can do to prevent people from misinterpreting information while still being transparent about how I keep baby chameleons :/
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They're not babies anymore, though, and you've been advised by multiple (highly experienced) people that it'd be wise to separate them. They might be doing okay now, but you know as well as anyone how well they hide stress.

My .02, for what little it's worth.
 
GoodKarma19 said:
They're not babies anymore, though, and you've been advised by multiple (highly experienced) people that it'd be wise to separate them. They might be doing okay now, but you know as well as anyone how well they hide stress.

My .02, for what little it's worth.
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I hear ya. They’ve actually already been separated since I had a spare enclosure laying around :) They just hadn’t when I was filming this video. Takes
me a bit of time to film and edit everything. Still want to get them Dragon Strand enclosures but that’ll just have to wait until production opens back up.
 
I think its interesting how people are moving to learning from Youtube... I hope people understand that learning from videos does not make the information correct. While you do a good job being specific and giving details, most don't. So I give you props for trying to educate in this manner. I do feel however that you are taking on a lot of responsibility with this format.

So insuring that you are providing 100% correct info is extremely important because you are influencing how others will care for their chameleon. I think if it is questionable such as showing them being housed together it is better to just not show this aspect. Even with the disclaimer... Your not guaranteed that someone watching isn't going to ignore that and put two Veileds together. Most people do not have the husbandry knowledge to differentiate what is right and what is wrong.... Which is why we see so many help threads here with heath issues. Even people coming here and saying they have two in one cage and "oh they are so happy." When we then look one is declining due to the stress.

I think there will always be differences in how we care for chameleons one keeper to the next. Like I do not use tongs at all when feeding. I hand feed or cup feed only. Again due to my own research on how tong feeding can hurt their tongues if they hit it the wrong way. So I cringe every time I see tongs being used. But again what works for one keeper may not be for another.

Good luck with the kids they really are quite beautiful.
 
GoodKarma19 said:
They're not babies anymore, though, and you've been advised by multiple (highly experienced) people that it'd be wise to separate them. They might be doing okay now, but you know as well as anyone how well they hide stress.

My .02, for what little it's worth.
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Clarissa is not your average keeper. I’ve bred Cristifer and advised her that cohabing this specific pair for the short term was acceptable based on my experience with a similar age juvenile pair and the fact that the first pair to breed in the US in 1997 was co-housed 24-7. Cristifer do in fact appear to be an exception to the rule. Don’t worry about Clarissa. She’s on the ball. As for the confusing example to others that cant be helped if people won’t read for the full info.
 
allredone said:
Clarissa is not your average keeper. I’ve bred Cristifer and advised her that cohabing this specific pair for the short term was acceptable based on my experience with a similar age juvenile pair and the fact that the first pair to breed in the US in 1997 was co-housed 24-7. Cristifer do in fact appear to be an exception to the rule. Don’t worry about Clarissa. She’s on the ball. As for the confusing example to others that cant be helped if people won’t read for the full info.
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Thanks for chiming in Aaron
 
One note on the whole Youtube education thing to keep in mind is that a majority of the users who will be following and watching will be children. I know a few people personally who either run small yet successful Tech or Reef based youtube channels and they have trended their data to find that a lot of the user base that watch are under 18, but the most interactive tend to be 18-25 age range. When it comes down to educating people about animals you kind of want to target the majority audience and expect them to be on the beginner/ignorant side and no matter what they will follow as you lead. I asked one of the people I know about how users reach out about questions on what he does and he said "well in my channels case I try to make it clear that what I do isn't 100% right by the book, but I'm trying to show people what I learn on the way so they don't make the same mistakes I did." He even has claimed that there are a large group of users who message him as they use his videos as if they were instructions to how to do something right and complain to him about the problems they run into even though he makes it clear that he's trying somethings out and some of them are untested in the hobby.

If you aim to be educational you have to somewhat force yourself into a mold, teach by showing what needs to be done and leave out the whole "do as I say, not as I do." In the case that you get a majority of users who are sub 18, expect them to be finding a way to cram a pair of Cham's together and just looking for a justification, be it right or wrong. One thing about YouTube is that there are a lot of people who do the same as you show, you can even see this in popular trending subjects where informational videos are being kicked out by the top tier folks doing exactly the same thing as one another. Sadly when it comes to this kind of education (though if done right it can be informative) people are looking for a quick answer to a problem rather than reading through vetted text on the subject. Though what @allredone said may be the case, he even claimed that it wasn't as big of an issue because @Gingero wasn't the average/stereotypical (in the negative sense) Cham keeper. If someone off the street that fell in love with the idea of a Cham as a pet saw the video they may try to do the same, in turn they will fail because of the lack of experience.
 
I don't see anyone attacking people for keeping Brookesia together! Under the correct conditions even panthers can be kept together! Cristifer can be kept together and is kept together without issues if they have enough space per body size.
 
I'm just trying to save chameleon lives.

There is certainly a learning curve with creating content for YouTube. And I certainly don't claim to have all of the answers. I'm an avid YouTube user and saw a gap for quality, chameleon specific content making this unchartered waters. I'm still trying to figure out what works best and what doesn't. I am mindful of the experience levels of various chameleon keepers which is why I always try to explain the 'why' behind the way I do things and put up any disclaimers. I make sure whatever it is I'm talking about, I can speak from personal experience and feel confident I'm knowledgeable on. Just a bummer to get this kind of backlash when what I said wasn't incorrect, it just could be taken the wrong way, even when I explicitly state otherwise. Even if someone doesn't find justification for improper chameleon husbandry on my channel, I'd think they'll just find it elsewhere. *sigh* I'll continue to try and minimize any opportunity for misinterpretation of information. I'd like to think my videos are doing more good than harm.

Interestingly enough, according to YouTube analytics 0% of my audience is in the 13-17 age range.
 
Thank you, @Tihshho, for your well laid out thoughts. That's more or less where I was coming from. :) I'm currently lacking the time and energy to be that eloquent.

Gingero said:
Just a bummer to get this kind of backlash when what I said wasn't incorrect, it just could be taken the wrong way
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I apologize if any comments of mine have come across as overly critical. Unfortunately, thus is the nature of text- it's impossible to read tone. I merely intended to caution you of the dangers inherent in posting things that can be misconstrued to a readily accessible public platform, as no one else had at that point and I felt it warranted mentioning.

I work in the veterinary industry, and thus regularly see clients who have pulled random bits and bobs from YouTube and various social media to the detriment of their animal(s). As such, I'm agonizingly aware of what kind of affect anything that isn't quite "by the books" might have on those viewing it. Even with all of the disclaimers in the world, someone's going to try to emulate it - and it's certainly not limited to children and young adults. If there's something you need to qualify, it's best not to display it to the public.

I appreciate the videos you make, and the knowledge you spread. Keep it up! Just be mindful of what you display to the masses, is all.
 
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