Does this cham look healthy?

[xPredator007x]

Hi. This is my girlfriends veiled chameleon and he is about 3-4 months old. Im worried he may be showing signs of MBD but I haven't told her yet because I don't want to freak her out. Im thinking about taking him to the vet soon but I wanted to see what other people thought first. He eats and drinks fine, but his casque is bent and he has a little shake to him when he moves but he can climb just fine and when you hold him he still has a good death grip. Im hoping if he has mbd it is only the beginning stages and it can be treated effectively. Please let me know what you think, thank you.

 

[Lovereps]

He does look like he's having some issues.
His left front leg--does it have an extra bend to it or is that just the angle of the pic?

If you know how she has been caring for him, we can give you a better idea of what she should change.
It may not just be a calcium problem.

It may be tough to get the answers to the questions but if you can copy and paste the questions from here https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and add the answers, it would do a lot for figuring out what's been going wrong.
Especially important to know are basking temperatures under his heat light, which supplements his feeders get dusted with and how often, whether or not he has a UVB light, and if it is a new bulb or one that was used before.

 

[xPredator007x]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Male Veiled, 3-4 months of age, been in care for about 2 months
Handling - at the moment every other day or every few days
Feeding - nano crickets twice a day that are pre gut loaded by healthypet or a pet shop by us or petco, petsmart etc. Mealworms too.
Supplements - I made her start supplementing just recently, not sure what brand it is off the top of my head but it is an orange bottle
Watering - mist several times a day and use a dripper. we have seen him drink from the dripper
Fecal Description - black and solid, not runny
Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? No parasite check has been done
History - was purchased from lllreptile in julyand has been doing alright. he eats regularly, drinks, and moves just fine. He changes color normally, but seems dark at times. he will sit out on a vine in his cage and then when he thinks he has been spotted will retreat to his plant hideaway.

Cage Info: 16x16x30 reptibreeze screen cage
Lighting - about 12 hours on and 12 hours off. a red 40 watt heatbulb for temperature and I believe a 5.0 reptisun uvb bulb
Temperature - temps are measured by two sets of gauges. the top of the cage reaches mid 90s and the bottom is mid to low 80s. at night the top is at mid 80s and the bottom is around high 70s to 80
Humidity - humidity is measured by two sets of gauges and is around 50-70% depending on the current weather
Plants - no live plants
Placement - height of cage is roughly 6 feet from ground. the cage is on a dresser in the corner of the room by the closet about 5-6 feet from a window that is always open. it isn't really high traffic
Location - Southern california

Current Problem - The casque is bent which isn't always a sign of mbd but I want others opinions and he has some shakiness when he moves but he still has a powerful grip and can hang onto vines while upside down or climb up and down vertically. He seems to be dark but when he changes colors he gets vibrant blues and greens and a turquoise color. I just want others opinions before I make a vet appointment

He has no bumps on his body that I have noticed, that camera angle just makes his elbow look bad.

 

[Lovereps]

Glad you got the info.
Your girlfriend is lucky to have a compassionate guy looking out for her and her cham.

There are definitely a few problems and, yes, some are nutritional problems.
Using just one type of supplement dust doesn't work with chams.

A young Veiled definitely needs to get plenty of calcium to make his growing body strong.
What happens when the feeders don't get dusted with calcium often enough is that the body steals the calcium out of the bones because it needs the calcium to make all the muscles work--muscles like the heart, digestive tract and tongue, plus the regular muscles for moving around.

There are 3 kinds of supplements that he needs
calcium without D3
calcium with D3
and
Multivitamin powder without D3

The feeders should be dusted on most days with the calcium without D3, then 2x a month with calcium with D3
and 2x a month with multivitamin


Pre-gutloaded crickets usually aren't really very well gutloaded.
You can get some Repashy Bug Burger or some Cricket Crack and gutload the feeders yourself, so they'll be more nutritious.

He is also being kept about 10 degrees too hot for such a youngster.
He should be kept at 85 in his basking spot.
You can take the red bulb out and just put a regular 60 watt lightbulb in its place to lower the temp down to the mid 80s.
This forum Veiled caresheet https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/ has plenty of great info and there is so much more good info linked on that page.

The way his casque looks , he is probably about midway in his MBD, right before the bones start deforming badly.
It is very treatable but, you need to follow the treatment and not think that if a little is good then more must be better--because it isn't and can do worse damage
MBD is reasonably easy to treat and if you know a good vet who knows how to treat chameleons, he can get a calcium injection to boost his calcium levels immediately.

Here is an excellent post by a vet, who also happens to be a chamkeeper, about MBD and how it's treated with calcium syrup https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

Oh and welcome to the forum!

 

[xPredator007x]

Can I get repashy or cricket crack from petco or petsmart? I would like to get it asap. i'll check what powder she has and get the two she doesn't tomorrow as well as check the temps. I have a 25 watt heat bulb coming in the mail that may be able to drop it down the right temp too. I got her to start dusting every day recently and i'll make sure that a schedule with the twice a month supplements is made. Should I take the little guy to a vet too to get some xrays done? What else do I need to do to treat him?

 

[sharp229]

I agree, it looks like an intermediate stage of MBD. Lovereps gave you excellent advice, I would carefully follow his supplementation and gutloading info. A trip to the vet would also help with increasing his calcium levels, although making changes to husbandry is critical to prevent the problem from recurring.

I would also verify the brand, model, and wattage of the UVB bulb. Is it a tube or a CFL? Is there a branch under the bulb where he can get to within 7 inches of it? Also, is there only screen between the bulb and him, or is there glass?

 

[sharp229]

Can I get repashy or cricket crack from petco or petsmart?

Where I live Petco/Petsmart has Repashy Bug Burger. I use Repashy Calcium Plus for D3 and Rep-Cal Herptivite for multivitamin, which were both available at Petco/Petsmart. I had a harder time finding plain calcium at these stores, but you may be able to find something. I use Rep-Cal Calcium for the plain. I wouldn't recommend you use the spray-on calcium. I now get all this from Amazon, I will give you the links below so you can see what the bottles look like:

Rep-Cal plain calcium:
http://www.amazon.com/Rep-Cal-SRP00...id=1412562406&sr=8-2&keywords=rep-cal+calcium

Repashy Calcium Plus (Calcium+D3)
http://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Calci...12562544&sr=8-2&keywords=repashy+calcium+plus

Rep-Cal Herptivite (multivitamin)
http://www.amazon.com/Rep-Cal-Resea...1412562613&sr=8-2&keywords=rep-cal+herptivite

 

[xPredator007x]

Okay I will look around my local pet stores for those bottles and i think the light is a cfl. It looks like 4 or 5 U shaped tubes connected to the base and its a socket style, not a tube light. Im 99% sure its a 5.0 reptisun but she throws boxes away so I cant give a 100% guarantee. All the walls are made of screen and he can get within five inches of the light on a vine that I tied off to the side of the cage.

As for the husbandry I plan to start a gutloading and dusting schedule. Anything else? Is the bulb not strong enough because it looks like it doesn't really light up the cage. I have an old mercury uvb bulb left over from when I had Chinese water dragons years ago (ive been in the reptile loving business for over half my life). I'll call the local vets too to see if any of them know a lot about chameleons and MBD

 

[sharp229]

Sorry forgot to add Bug Burger, which is the gut-load Lovereps mentioned:

http://www.amazon.com/Repashy-Bug-B...1412565003&sr=8-3&keywords=repashy+bug-burger

You can use that along with a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables like kale, collard greens, carrots, etc.

The supplementation, gutloading, and lighting are the most important things to fix with MBD. You should also lower the temps as suggested, since that can cause other issues.

The bulb should be labeled on the base with model and wattage. CFLs will work although tubes are preferable. You can also check the veiled care guide below:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

 

[xPredator007x]

Alright thank you sharp and lovereps, I'm going shopping tomorrow and i'll look at the bulb tomorrow as well to see what kind it is

 

[Lovereps]

You're in SoCal----so you are in luck!
This Dr, Tom Greek, is an outstanding chameleon vet http://gavh.net/
If you can get the cham to him, you won't be disappointed.
Just search past posts here and you will find numerous raves about him.

Here's a link to a webpage for Cricket Crack http://buycricketcrack.com/
It's made by fellow forum member and chamkeeper SSimsswiSS.

Zoo Med Reptivite without D3 is the multivitamin that I use.
There's some debate over whether or not the form of vitamin A present in Herptivite is actually usable by chams.
Not debating here, just informing.

A vet visit, if the vet knows chams, would be good but vets who don't know about chams have been known to do serious harm--not all of them but it has happened.


In cases where a good cham vet can't be seen promptly or there just isn't one, then people buy calcium syrup (it's the kind made for people) and administer just 1 drop in the morning and 1 drop later in the day.
It can sometimes be found at a pharmacy and it is sold on Amazon as Rugby Calcionate, calcium glubionate or Neo Calglucon .

Please let us know how things go.

Kudos to you for helping the little cham!

 

[xPredator007x]

Okay the light is a reptisun 10.0 and I got flukers orange Gutload, repcal multivitamin, EXO terra calcium powder, and repashy calcium plus

 

[Lpsouth1978]

Okay the light is a reptisun 10.0 and I got flukers orange Gutload, repcal multivitamin, EXO terra calcium powder, and repashy calcium plus

Unfortunately, the Flukers gutloads are not very good. I make all of my own gutloads. Check out this blog by sandrachameleon. I used her info to custom make my own gutload. I got everything at Whole Foods or Sprouts and used the things I could find. Mix it to as fine a powder as you can manage and include as many different items as you can from the list.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/697-dry-gutload-mix-august-2012.html