Difference between panthers...

[dondeb562]

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference in a Sambava and a red bar ambilobe. I have a red bar (as I was told) and they looks identical to me. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Chill]

The difference is in the colors they normally show.

Ambilobes usually have lots of colors, reds, blues, yellows, greens,whites.
Sambava's tend to have more reds and oranges, greens as well but dont usually have blues in them.

 

[dondeb562]

hmm... My boy is all green with red bars. He turns mostly reddish in color while sleeping or when he sees a girl..... I have posted pix of him on here before I will add the link in a sec....

 

[dondeb562]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/new-here-9749/index2.html
His pix are on the second page of this link....

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

One of the accepted pattern traits for a Sambava male
is that it will have a "U" shaped bar that runs
down from the dorsal under the lateral line of the animal
then back up towards the dorsal without a break or partial bar
below shoulder running up from under the chest
until after the "U" bar is complete.
I hope ty doesn't get upset at my using this image of Loki:
http://www.bluebeastreptile.com/images/TYLER/Sambava/LOKI10-29.jpg

There are also color differences
and some other morphological differences that can be debated
at this point and are difficult to relate to someone new to the species.
but the "U" bar is the most easily seen and objective determination.

You should also be aware of the fact that there are many hybrids out there
of mixed local origin that may have a "U" bar but in conjunction with other traits
that someone with more experience will be required to view, access and weigh.

[edit]
I just saw that pict.
yeah it seems mostly sambava if not completely from that local.
it's difficult to tell because the pict isn't all that good.
two of the bars are merged but you can't tell if they continue at all.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Donde...yours is a red bar ambilobe. He doesn't have the U bar that jeweled is talking about.

-chris

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Check out the U bar:

-chris

 

[dondeb562]

ok, so since stripe on the side looks more like a "Y" then a "U" then that would be the indentifying feature right? They look so similar, so I just wanted to get some knowledge on identifying them. Thanks to the people who helped me out!
I will also try to get some better body pix too.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

Yes mostly...and also color a little. But with ambilobes that can be tricky.

-chris

 

[Chill]

So a "U" bar is how you tell a Sambava?

Thats interesting, i've always just thought the color diff's but yah there are some crazy hybrids.

 

[dondeb562]

That's what as trying to figure out too. As I was searching and looking through pix of different panthers and then saw the sambava I realized they look almost identical to the red bar ambilobe I have. I find it so crazy that a pattern difference so slight can make them two different sub species.

 

[Jeweledchameleons]

something objective perhaps....?

Well I tend to think that if there could be a genetic set of markers for the west coast locals
we would all be in great shape telling one "mystery female" from another.

Something between this kids kit for $70 bucks
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.12/tools.html?pg=3&topic=&topic_set=
and a more professional one that will be in the thousands
to preview several animals from a known locality
and search for any distinct markers when compared to other known locals.

that would solve it all...
although I get the feeling that there's a lot of mixes in the american domestic population... the motivation may be lax.
To counterbalance it all, breeders could certify their animal lines
and sell them at a better price point as a result.

just some thoughts.