Dehydration + Blindness

ChameSecret

Member
Your Chameleon - 3yo ambanja male, been in my care for 2.5 years
Handling - Perhaps once every two weeks to inspect for problems and handfeed
Feeding - fed 10-15 crickets twice a week, 1 dusted with calcium, 1 dusted with Dino Fuel Raptor Edition
Supplements - See above, plus once a month calcium w D3
Watering - misted through AquaZamp RainDome 3 x a day for 5 minutes
Fecal Description - Unknown for the last month, before that, healthy without yellow/orange dehydration artifact
History - Been a great little rambunctious critter for his whole life. No previous health problems.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 2x2x4 mesh cage
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - 74-90F, basking spot is quite deep so based on his position, varies from 85 to 80.
Humidity - Fluctuates widely, but 60%+ most of the day (drops at night due to lack of misting)
Plants - Yes, 1, unknown at the moment (tag has completely sunbleached), but bought off the chameleon safe plants list on this site
Placement - Now in the living room, off to the side, next to the window
Location - Houston, TX

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Now that that's out of the way, hello! My little guy DeNo is having some serious problems. Here is the saga. On Thursday I noticed he looked a bit thin all of a sudden, so I put 5 more crickets in his cage. On Friday night, he was sleeping vertically, head down, on the plant's trunk. I thought it was a bit strange, since he always sleeps under a leaf hammock near the top of the cage. On Saturday morning before I left for work (10am), I noticed he was hanging off the bottom of branches and looking uncoordinated. Alarmed, I could do nothing in time before I had to leave for work, and told my roommate to keep an eye on him. When I came home, he was on the bottom of the cage, on his side, his eyes sunken in DEEP. This is the first time I noticed any signs of dehydration (which I am normally quite sensitive to), as I saw him drinking on Thursday with no issue. This was about 5pm Saturday.

I immediately drove to and called 3 vets/clinics, and no one would/could/wanted to see him before Monday. He needed an IV immediately. He was completely unresponsive to light and had no vestibular control. He was unable to walk. He was dying. I took matters into my own hands. First I tried gavaging fresh conditioned water, but he was too semiconscious to swallow and the risk of drowning him was too great. I have access to syringes, sterile phosphate-buffered saline, and needles and I have veterinary surgical training. I gave him very careful 1ml subcutaneous injections spaced out over the course of about half an hour to 45 minutes (always at room temperature before injection). All-in-all, it took approximately 10ml to return him to awareness and when he went to sleep last night he was finally having vestibuloocular and optokinetic responses, but his balance was still bad. He slept in my pet carrier, so he wouldn't hurt himself trying to climb.

This morning, he is moving his eyes normally (but not in response to stimuli), able to walk, and able to balance on branches. His eyes are no longer sunken, and he looks like the healthy teal/red he normally is. He no longer looks skinny. However, I believe he is now blind. He will not leave the branch I place him on, he seems unaware when food is placed in front of him on tongs (he normally has at MAX a 10 second latency before he attacks food placed in front of him). I have read the other "Dehydrated" threads, and:
(1) no one really ever talks about what resolved the problem, or whether their cham died,
(2) no one has shown that dehydration may result in blindness, and
(3) I am finding it very difficult with my limited information to determine whether he went blind first, then had feeding and drinking problems, or whether he is having temporary vision problems due to the dehydration.

Anyone have any guesses on how to proceed? I'm also looking for a herpetologist worth a damn in Houston, because I have previously been burned by chuckleheads who thought snalt was an infection and that gutloading crickets was "dangerous".

Thank you for reading.
 
I hope it is something as reversible as Vitamin A deficiency, thanks Nursemaia.

Thanks Jannb, that's the vet I got in touch with this morning for a Mon or Tues appointment. They seem like they're the best in the area.
 
Your Chameleon - 3yo ambanja male, been in my care for 2.5 years
Handling - Perhaps once every two weeks to inspect for problems and handfeed
Feeding - fed 10-15 crickets twice a week, 1 dusted with calcium, 1 dusted with Dino Fuel Raptor Edition
Supplements - See above, plus once a month calcium w D3
Watering - misted through AquaZamp RainDome 3 x a day for 5 minutes
Fecal Description - Unknown for the last month, before that, healthy without yellow/orange dehydration artifact
History - Been a great little rambunctious critter for his whole life. No previous health problems.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 2x2x4 mesh cage
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - 74-90F, basking spot is quite deep so based on his position, varies from 85 to 80.
Humidity - Fluctuates widely, but 60%+ most of the day (drops at night due to lack of misting)
Plants - Yes, 1, unknown at the moment (tag has completely sunbleached), but bought off the chameleon safe plants list on this site
Placement - Now in the living room, off to the side, next to the window
Location - Houston, TX

------------------------------------------------------

Now that that's out of the way, hello! My little guy DeNo is having some serious problems. Here is the saga. On Thursday I noticed he looked a bit thin all of a sudden, so I put 5 more crickets in his cage. On Friday night, he was sleeping vertically, head down, on the plant's trunk. I thought it was a bit strange, since he always sleeps under a leaf hammock near the top of the cage. On Saturday morning before I left for work (10am), I noticed he was hanging off the bottom of branches and looking uncoordinated. Alarmed, I could do nothing in time before I had to leave for work, and told my roommate to keep an eye on him. When I came home, he was on the bottom of the cage, on his side, his eyes sunken in DEEP. This is the first time I noticed any signs of dehydration (which I am normally quite sensitive to), as I saw him drinking on Thursday with no issue. This was about 5pm Saturday.

I immediately drove to and called 3 vets/clinics, and no one would/could/wanted to see him before Monday. He needed an IV immediately. He was completely unresponsive to light and had no vestibular control. He was unable to walk. He was dying. I took matters into my own hands. First I tried gavaging fresh conditioned water, but he was too semiconscious to swallow and the risk of drowning him was too great. I have access to syringes, sterile phosphate-buffered saline, and needles and I have veterinary surgical training. I gave him very careful 1ml subcutaneous injections spaced out over the course of about half an hour to 45 minutes (always at room temperature before injection). All-in-all, it took approximately 10ml to return him to awareness and when he went to sleep last night he was finally having vestibuloocular and optokinetic responses, but his balance was still bad. He slept in my pet carrier, so he wouldn't hurt himself trying to climb.

This morning, he is moving his eyes normally (but not in response to stimuli), able to walk, and able to balance on branches. His eyes are no longer sunken, and he looks like the healthy teal/red he normally is. He no longer looks skinny. However, I believe he is now blind. He will not leave the branch I place him on, he seems unaware when food is placed in front of him on tongs (he normally has at MAX a 10 second latency before he attacks food placed in front of him). I have read the other "Dehydrated" threads, and:
(1) no one really ever talks about what resolved the problem, or whether their cham died,
(2) no one has shown that dehydration may result in blindness, and
(3) I am finding it very difficult with my limited information to determine whether he went blind first, then had feeding and drinking problems, or whether he is having temporary vision problems due to the dehydration.

Anyone have any guesses on how to proceed? I'm also looking for a herpetologist worth a damn in Houston, because I have previously been burned by chuckleheads who thought snalt was an infection and that gutloading crickets was "dangerous".

Thank you for reading.
So sorry to hear about him. I had pretty much the same problem vitamin A deficiency I also have one now that is blind because of it. All I can suggest is when he goes to eat is when he drinks when the tongue comes out I gave him worm or crickets. To get him to drink I have to bring him to the shower. I hope this helps. Keep us updated good luck
 
So sorry to hear about him. I had pretty much the same problem vitamin A deficiency I also have one now that is blind because of it. All I can suggest is when he goes to eat is when he drinks when the tongue comes out I gave him worm or crickets. To get him to drink I have to bring him to the shower. I hope this helps. Keep us updated good luck
But you also have to look out for kidney failure
 
So sorry to hear about him. I had pretty much the same problem vitamin A deficiency I also have one now that is blind because of it. All I can suggest is when he goes to eat is when he drinks when the tongue comes out I gave him worm or crickets. To get him to drink I have to bring him to the shower. I hope this helps. Keep us updated good luck

Thanks Link. I just bamboozled him into feeding by placing a superworm on his lips while giving him water and I think with time this could be a stable feeding/drinking system.

So if I understand correctly, the Vitamin A Deficiency (VAD) led to blindness that was not reversible whatsoever? Did the vet try Vitamin A injections? Does your chameleon have cataracts from corneal dryness caused by VAD? Are their eyes cloudy? Any and all info appreciated.
 
My guys eyes are just dark and look dead it looks like they're looking right through you. Many vets no one knows. They are the Rubik's Cubes of lizards
 
DeNo's are still moist, with a visible iris and looking healthy. I hope there's hope that this can be reversed. What keeps bothering me is that I supplement, I gutload, and my female veiled chameleon, who receives the same treatment, is fine. I even use carrots in my gutload! They're full of Vitamin A!

I just don't get what was the inciting incident that made him go from fine on Wednesday and nearly die in my arms yesterday. Hopefully some answers when he goes to the vet.
 
You said you use Dino Fuel but my understanding is that is a gutload so are use using any multivitamin
 
You said you use Dino Fuel but my understanding is that is a gutload so are use using any multivitamin

I use it as a dusting, as recommended by the manufacturer, because crickets don't seem to like eating it... But yes, I use Zoo Med Reptivite when I administer D3.
 
Okay, so here's an update:

1. Took him to see Dr. Antinoff, who is rad and good, at Gulf Coast Veterinary Specialists on Tuesday morning.
- Normal physical exam
- Normal neurological exam (with normal pupillary reflexes, btw), except slow to right himself when tipped
- No perceived deficiencies in husbandry
- Confirmed blindness and vestibular/balance issues
- Took blood for bloodwork
- Given an emergency nutritional formula to administer every two days until symptoms improve while waiting for blood work
2. Gave him emergency formula that night with ample water. Has now completely stabilized, but still exhibiting blindness and balance problems.
3. Just received his blood work and spoke to Dr. Antinoff.
- All vitamins and minerals in normal range. (NO VITAMIN A DEFICIENCY)
- All serum components are normal, except for white blood cells, which are elevated but still within the normal range.

So it wasn't a Vitamin A deficiency. The cause of his dehydration remains unknown, as his RainDome system functions flawlessly. At this point, I think he went blind first and everything else followed. There are three hypotheses: (1) idiopathic blindness, (2) stroke, or (3) meningitis leading to brain damage. They all have evidence and counter evidence. We'll try a light antibiotic treatment to see if it's the latter. The saga continues...
 
Chameleons can live blind, I have heard of many cases and even had a young female veiled who had her eyes sealed shut because of a vitamin deficiency who was technically blind for 4 months. She ended up recovering just fine and during the entire time she got around great. She was never able to eat bugs because she didn't trust me when I got her so I had to force feed her and hand water her to make sure she was getting everything she needed. However I have heard of cases of older chameleons who have gone blind and trust their people enough that they are able to feed the insects. It usually takes a while to figure out a system that works but it does end up working with persistence. I hope you guys figured it out soon. It sounds like at the moment he getting back to where he needs to be. Just be sure any changes you do to the cage are very gradual.
 
Chameleons can live blind, I have heard of many cases and even had a young female veiled who had her eyes sealed shut because of a vitamin deficiency who was technically blind for 4 months. She ended up recovering just fine and during the entire time she got around great. She was never able to eat bugs because she didn't trust me when I got her so I had to force feed her and hand water her to make sure she was getting everything she needed. However I have heard of cases of older chameleons who have gone blind and trust their people enough that they are able to feed the insects. It usually takes a while to figure out a system that works but it does end up working with persistence. I hope you guys figured it out soon. It sounds like at the moment he getting back to where he needs to be. Just be sure any changes you do to the cage are very gradual.
They can live a long time I have one that is blind right now. Just a little bit more work and patience
 
Andee and Link:

Absolutely, and I love de Nó whether he can see or not. He accepts food and water orally, and I hope that once he acclimates to this change in his life, he will continue to thrive. At the moment, he is behaving a bit confused and, I think, aggressive because he is afraid. With time and careful handling, I am confident this behavior will decrease. He's been exploring his environment more.... with his mouth. Here's him saying hello to my sofa.
IMG_2451.JPG
 
He's a beautiful boy. And I agree his aggression and confusion will calm down. He just got hit with a huge change in his life very suddenly which we all know chameleons don't do sudden change well at all <3 just be patient and he will come around. Keep us updated. That is the most adorable picture ^^ I have faith you two will figure it out
 
Wow what a beautiful boy. Seen his eyes open like that. Hopefully it will go away. Mine has to drink or orally and eat by hand. He's not aggressive at all hopefully you'll get over it
 
de Nó passed away peacefully at 7:15pm today.

When I got home he was extremely active. I brought him out of his cage and he would not stop running. He had just been given his first dose of antibiotics orally (0.09cc). A half hour later I attempted to feed him his emergency nutritional solution. He would not swallow, and spit out his food. For the next 30 minutes, he became less and less responsive, gaping his mouth and hissing, grasping with his tail wildly. Then closed his eyes. I checked his mouth and what I could see of his air passages. They were unobstructed. I immediately gave 5ml of phosphate-buffered saline subcutaneously, thinking this must be dehydration. He never woke up.

I am crushed. I don't understand how this happened in the span of a week. Right now, the lack of an answer for "how" or "why" bothers me the most. Thank you to everyone who has helped and encouraged us on this thread. I will follow up with an autopsy request tomorrow morning.

Goodnight, sweet prince.
 
de Nó passed away peacefully at 7:15pm today.

When I got home he was extremely active. I brought him out of his cage and he would not stop running. He had just been given his first dose of antibiotics orally (0.09cc). A half hour later I attempted to feed him his emergency nutritional solution. He would not swallow, and spit out his food. For the next 30 minutes, he became less and less responsive, gaping his mouth and hissing, grasping with his tail wildly. Then closed his eyes. I checked his mouth and what I could see of his air passages. They were unobstructed. I immediately gave 5ml of phosphate-buffered saline subcutaneously, thinking this must be dehydration. He never woke up.

I am crushed. I don't understand how this happened in the span of a week. Right now, the lack of an answer for "how" or "why" bothers me the most. Thank you to everyone who has helped and encouraged us on this thread. I will follow up with an autopsy request tomorrow morning.

Goodnight, sweet prince.
I am so sorry for your loss. I could see how much you loved him. Please let us know what it is. Such a shame just remember you tried your hardest
 
I am so sorry for you two. Hopefully the necropsy tells gives you some light on the subject.
 
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