Could my cham be developing mbd? HELP!

mchams

New Member
My poor little cham isn't looking so hot.(vieled)
Sex: unknown
age: Has been in my care a little over a month
Problem: He/she does not have double knees, weakness, ect. The only things I'm noticing are that his/her tail is becoming crooked almost like scoliosis and also that his back legs are constantly grabbing onto his body. When he/she is walking his legs will go up and grab his/her belly instead of a branch. This is also causing him/her to have sores on his/her side. The right foot seems to be more of a problem. I am unsure of what to do.
Feeding: His/her veggies are coated 2 times (now 3 because of worries) weekly and his/her insects come pre gut-loaded.

He/she is drinking normally but i am noticing he/she is eating less.

Someone give me an idea of what could be going on i am becoming increasingly worried.:eek:
 

mchams

New Member
Can you post a pic of your cham please?

What do you supplement with?
I have no camera:( and I use flunkers with d3. should i switch this with complete calcium? Have not been able to find multi vitamins so im going to breakdown and buy it online.
 

camimom

New Member
We need to see how advanced it is. we also need to find out what species it is, and what gender.

Based on everything you said, it does sound like mbd.

but without knowing anything about the cham, its going to be harder to help.

IF its a veiled, you need to supplement with calcium with no d3 every feeding.

IF you've been using d3 for every feeding, it could be overdosed.

but the extra joints, falling, and grabbing of self, are symptoms of MBD.
 

mchams

New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - veiled, unknown, unknown. Little over a month
Handling - Once a week for cage cleaning
Feeding - meal worms/ crickets. 3-5 per day less now. 2 morning 3 afternoon 2 offered at night. pre loaded/veggies
Supplements -flunkers with d3 2 times a week now 3
Watering - Misting? every few hours and until foliage i nicely covered. yes.
Fecal Description - brown and white sometimes slightly liuidy. Has not been taken to vet.
History -

Cage Info:
Cage Type -glass 35 gal. (AT MOMENT) Cat knocked over the screen cage i made while i was cleaning it, so I am in the process of constructing another one.
Lighting- 16-8
Temperature - basking : 80 floor: 75. 70. thermometers.
Humidity -between 50-70?misting ? hygrometer?
Plants - no? If so, what kind?
Placement -Bedroom?no. 4 feet
Location - northeastern us

Current Problem - previously stated.
 

mchams

New Member
We need to see how advanced it is. we also need to find out what species it is, and what gender.

Based on everything you said, it does sound like mbd.

but without knowing anything about the cham, its going to be harder to help.

IF its a veiled, you need to supplement with calcium with no d3 every feeding.

IF you've been using d3 for every feeding, it could be overdosed.

but the extra joints, falling, and grabbing of self, are symptoms of MBD.
the problem is i do not notice extra joints or any falling infact this morning he/she was sleeping hanging from his/her back legs. AND THE D3 IS NOT USED EVERY FEEDING.I am going to try to find a camera in the house i can use but no promise.
 

camimom

New Member
the problem is i do not notice extra joints or any falling infact this morning he/she was sleeping hanging from his/her back legs. AND THE D3 IS NOT USED EVERY FEEDING.I am going to try to find a camera in the house i can use but no promise.
my apologies, I read your post as there were double joints.

however, the constant body grabbing is a sign of MBD.

does your phone have a camera?
 

mchams

New Member
my apologies, I read your post as there were double joints.

however, the constant body grabbing is a sign of MBD.

does your phone have a camera?
Phone is junk

Its quite alright i was just correcting you.

And what should i do to correct it before it becomes too much of an issue and causes HER to have permenant damage.

(no spur on hind feet)
 

camimom

New Member
You need to use a calcium with no d3 for every feeding. which you will probably need to order online.

You need to increase your gutloading abilities as wlel. fresh fruits and veggies.

you need natural sunlight, this can help immensely. take her outside as much as possible.

what uvb bulb are you using?

If your basking temp is only 70, that's a big issue. she needs ot closer to 82-84.
 

mchams

New Member
my apologies, I read your post as there were double joints.

however, the constant body grabbing is a sign of MBD.

does your phone have a camera?
Phone is junk

Its quite alright i was just correcting you.

And what should i do to correct it before it becomes too much of an issue and causes HER to have permenant damage.

(no spur on hind feet)
 

mchams

New Member
You need to use a calcium with no d3 for every feeding. which you will probably need to order online.

You need to increase your gutloading abilities as wlel. fresh fruits and veggies.

you need natural sunlight, this can help immensely. take her outside as much as possible.

what uvb bulb are you using?

If your basking temp is only 70, that's a big issue. she needs ot closer to 82-84.
using zoomed lights- 150w day bulb , 100w night

No my temp is near 70 at the bottom.

cage is infront of window that gets sun for most of the day

i change gutloading weekly rotating between greens, fruits, fish flakes, and store bought gut load as to give a variety to my cham.

Please read my full response so there is no more confusion.
 

mchams

New Member
She looks like she may need to lay eggs.

do you have a lay bin in her cage?
No, but she does not spend much if any of her time on the bottom unless catching food or drinking. can one be made to suit her needs for now? What should be used in the bin? wont the substrate become a hazard to her? i do not think she is of 4 months of age either but i am not an expert.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Welcome to the forums!
Your temperatures only get up to 85 with a 150watt bulb in a 30 gallon glass tank? That is extremely unlikely unless temperatures around the cage are frigid. Are you sure the thermometers are measuring correctly? I ask because I use a 75watt bulb at max when the house temperatures are in the 60's in a screen cage (so heat dissipates much more rapidly than with glass) and I don't get a lot higher than 85.

Glass blocks over 98% of UVB rays so sitting your chameleon by the window does not provide any UVB rays unless it is open and there is no glass between the sunlight and your chameleon. The heat from the sun through a window can actually be a danger to your chameleon. A UVB bulb is necessary if unfiltered sunlight cannot be provided for 8-12 hours every day.

No need light is needed at all: Chameleons have a parietal (third) eye, which exists as a photoreceptive scale on the top of their head. This senses light in the environment and helps regulate basking and activity even when your chameleon’s eyes are closed. Light at night can still disturb them while their eyes are closed because of this. So the blue or red night lights available are not recommended for this reason. A temperature drop at night is normal and good for metabolism so unless your ambient temperatures are less than 60 degrees you do not need supplemental heat at night. Better options for night heating are ceramic heat emitters (no light) or space heaters.

Your full response was lacking, which is why we need clarification.

You will need to provide an appropriate size and depth laying bin to encourage your female to lay her eggs. Here is a great blog with additional information and this is a video on how to set up a laying bin. If your female will not or cannot lay her eggs she could become egg-bound, which is a life threatening condition. Do not let your female go too long after she should have laid her eggs. If she appears too weak to lay her eggs get her immediate veterinary care asap. If caught in time there are medical interventions that can help her to lay on her own. If it too late she will need to have a c-section to remove the eggs, or she may not survive.
My female has her laying bin in her cage 24/7/365 and she has never had a problem with substrate ingestion.

If she is young and especially if she is developing eggs she needs calcium without D3 or phos every single day.

Your gutloading sounds like it could be improved to incorporate more calcium rich food and fewer proteins. Here is more information on foods and gutloading ingredients: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/
 
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mchams

New Member
Your temperatures only get up to 85 with a 150watt bulb in a 30 gallon glass tank? That is extremely unlikely unless temperatures around the cage are frigid. Are you sure the thermometers are measuring correctly?

Glass blocks over 98% of UVB rays so sitting your chameleon by the window does not provide any UVB rays unless it is open and there is no glass between the sunlight and your chameleon. The heat from the sun through a window can actually be a danger to your chameleon. A UVB bulb is necessary if unfiltered sunlight cannot be provided for 8-12 hours every day.

Your full response was lacking, which is why we need clarification.
Quite possible the thermometer may be screwing up, glass is temporary while screen cage is being built. I appologize for my lacking response, everyone wants the full survey completed, you should know which questions are included on the survey since you are all so up-tight about it. I understand it is necessary but christ. Temps in my area( northern CT) have been quite cold the last few days and the does not warm the tank all day.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
There's no need to get snippy, we are trying to help you as best we can. And we can only offer advice based on what you give us. As you know, chameleons have very specific needs so we're just trying to make very specific recommendations to help you the most.
 
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