Confused about "when" I should breed my female

[Han0915]

Hello all!

So my newfound love for Chameleons these past 7 months have gotten me wanting to breed them, and I'm essentially prepared to start! I'm just a little confused about one certain thing however, so I apologize if this sounds stupid lol.

So my male, Felix, is almost 10 months old, and just a few days ago, I bought a 8-9 month old female. I've read that it's wise to wait until a year old to breed the female, so I'm happy to do that.... but what I'm confused about is, what if she begins showing she's receptive? As of now, she's definitely not receptive to my male (though he is 100% ready to do the deed lol) so I've covered her so she can't see him and can basically just take her time. I'd actually like to wait til she gains a little more weight since she's only 60g right now, and I've read the magic number is at least 70g. But I guess what confuses me is, lets say a week from now she becomes receptive to the male... Is that when I should technically let the breeding happen? So she doesn't end up producing infertile eggs instead? Again, I'm sorry if that is a dumb question lol but I know females can still produce eggs regardless if bred, so I'm just confused as to the timeline that I have when she starts showing she's ready to breed.

I have everything prepared in a sense that I'm just waiting on her to become ready, but I wanted to have more understanding about the actual timeline I have to breed her before she produces infertile eggs and I miss that window to introduce her to the male for a successful breeding. I'm more than happy to wait until she's a year old for her overall health, but I also don't want to miss a chance at breeding her if she does become receptive soon because I figured she'd be going through the stress of laying infertile eggs for nothing.... if that makes sense?

I'm happy to post some pictures of the pair tomorrow once they're awake; she actually is quite larger than I thought she'd be, so even though she's younger than recommended age... I think she'd be fine to breed as long as I can pack on just a tad bit more weight. She's a veryyyy chubby, healthy girl as is haha but I'm trying to do good on her too.

At the end of the day, I wanna do my best for both of them and especially for her, so I hope I can clear up this confusion that I'm having with the breeding timeline and such. Hope all of this makes sense haha, I just haven't been able to find an answer to this question yet!

 

[nightanole]

She will be receptive several times a year. That doesnt mean you should do a double or triple clutch every year. Id wait till after her first clutch of duds before breeding.

 

[Kaizen]

Hello all!

So my newfound love for Chameleons these past 7 months have gotten me wanting to breed them, and I'm essentially prepared to start! I'm just a little confused about one certain thing however, so I apologize if this sounds stupid lol.

So my male, Felix, is almost 10 months old, and just a few days ago, I bought a 8-9 month old female. I've read that it's wise to wait until a year old to breed the female, so I'm happy to do that.... but what I'm confused about is, what if she begins showing she's receptive? As of now, she's definitely not receptive to my male (though he is 100% ready to do the deed lol) so I've covered her so she can't see him and can basically just take her time. I'd actually like to wait til she gains a little more weight since she's only 60g right now, and I've read the magic number is at least 70g. But I guess what confuses me is, lets say a week from now she becomes receptive to the male... Is that when I should technically let the breeding happen? So she doesn't end up producing infertile eggs instead? Again, I'm sorry if that is a dumb question lol but I know females can still produce eggs regardless if bred, so I'm just confused as to the timeline that I have when she starts showing she's ready to breed.

I have everything prepared in a sense that I'm just waiting on her to become ready, but I wanted to have more understanding about the actual timeline I have to breed her before she produces infertile eggs and I miss that window to introduce her to the male for a successful breeding. I'm more than happy to wait until she's a year old for her overall health, but I also don't want to miss a chance at breeding her if she does become receptive soon because I figured she'd be going through the stress of laying infertile eggs for nothing.... if that makes sense?

I'm happy to post some pictures of the pair tomorrow once they're awake; she actually is quite larger than I thought she'd be, so even though she's younger than recommended age... I think she'd be fine to breed as long as I can pack on just a tad bit more weight. She's a veryyyy chubby, healthy girl as is haha but I'm trying to do good on her too.

At the end of the day, I wanna do my best for both of them and especially for her, so I hope I can clear up this confusion that I'm having with the breeding timeline and such. Hope all of this makes sense haha, I just haven't been able to find an answer to this question yet!

I absolutely don’t want to discourage you here, but I just want to make sure that when you say you’re ready, you understand exactly what that means. Although limiting food and temp are often recommended to reduce clutch size, a female veiled chameleon can lay a huge clutch. Although I have learned better clutch reduction since, one of my females layed 76 eggs her first clutch. They were all fertile. Now, imagine that your girl lays a modest clutch of 50 fertile eggs. I assume you’re going to bin raise the babies until they are 3 months, so at a maximun of 12/bin (which is still too many) you’ll need 4 - 5 bins, say $60. On top of that, you’ll need at least 2 4’ uvb lights to give you full coverage, say $125. Now the food. Each baby can consume 10 food items/day. That’s 500 food items/day x 90 days = 45,000 food items that you’ll have to buy. A thousand crickets (here) runs about $30. So 30 x 45 = $1350 worth of food for your clutch. Not to mention the cost of the new lights and the bins, which amounts to $3.70/baby. 50 babies can easily cost you $1700 to raise to 3 months, and that’s without accounting for increased electricity, water and supplements.

This is all assuming that at the 90 day mark, you’ll be able to get rid of them all, because every day, each 3 month old baby will be costing you approximately $.30/day, or $2.10/week...per baby.

One way to unload them quickly at the 3 months mark is to wholesale to a pet store, or a distributor. But you’ll probably only get between 30 and 40$/baby that way. And since each baby has cost you at least $34 to raise, you don’t stand to profit much, and might stand to come in at a loss.

that being said, if you can line up 50 individual buyers before the three month mark, then you might be ok. I know this isn’t all about the money, but if you can’t afford at least $1700 up front cost, then wait until you can.

 

[Han0915]

I absolutely don’t want to discourage you here, but I just want to make sure that when you say you’re ready, you understand exactly what that means. Although limiting food and temp are often recommended to reduce clutch size, a female veiled chameleon can lay a huge clutch. Although I have learned better clutch reduction since, one of my females layed 76 eggs her first clutch. They were all fertile. Now, imagine that your girl lays a modest clutch of 50 fertile eggs. I assume you’re going to bin raise the babies until they are 3 months, so at a maximun of 12/bin (which is still too many) you’ll need 4 - 5 bins, say $60. On top of that, you’ll need at least 2 4’ uvb lights to give you full coverage, say $125. Now the food. Each baby can consume 10 food items/day. That’s 500 food items/day x 90 days = 45,000 food items that you’ll have to buy. A thousand crickets (here) runs about $30. So 30 x 45 = $1350 worth of food for your clutch. Not to mention the cost of the new lights and the bins, which amounts to $3.70/baby. 50 babies can easily cost you $1700 to raise to 3 months, and that’s without accounting for increased electricity, water and supplements.

This is all assuming that at the 90 day mark, you’ll be able to get rid of them all, because every day, each 3 month old baby will be costing you approximately $.30/day, or $2.10/week...per baby.

One way to unload them quickly at the 3 months mark is to wholesale to a pet store, or a distributor. But you’ll probably only get between 30 and 40$/baby that way. And since each baby has cost you at least $34 to raise, you don’t stand to profit much, and might stand to come in at a loss.

that being said, if you can line up 50 individual buyers before the three month mark, then you might be ok. I know this isn’t all about the money, but if you can’t afford at least $1700 up front cost, then wait until you can.

Yep got everything ready luckily! I breed my own roaches and will start a couple fruit flies cultures + get some crickets bred in the months before. The clutch size of Panthers are generally half that so I'm expecting 20-30 babies but will obviously prep more food if needed. I'll know more whenever the eggs pop.

Definitely don't expect to have issues with selling them. I'll be attending some reptile expos once they're ready and also have a local breeder that I'm working with when it comes time to that part too. Panther chams seem in high demand here in LA area so I'm not expecting that to be an issue.

Mainly doing this because I've had some approach me requesting a baby from my male, and this is something I always was going to get into anyways! Not expecting to pay much at all since I won't be buying feeders (raising all) and just run raising them to 2-3 months old. Got a couple breeders I'm in contact with that's been helping me along the way too

 

[Han0915]

She will be receptive several times a year. That doesnt mean you should do a double or triple clutch every year. Id wait till after her first clutch of duds before breeding.

Yes that's what I just read a little about too. So basically let's say she lays her first dud set in the next month. Would it be wise to breed her the next receptive period or wait it out for a few more months? I'm getting into this side of the reptile hobby slowly so I'll only be starting with one clutch for now. Then as time goes on I plan on adding more females to limit the amount of times they're bred. I'm more focused on making sure the females stay healthy over a longer period of time!

 

[Kaizen]

Yep got everything ready luckily! I breed my own roaches and will start a couple fruit flies cultures + get some crickets bred in the months before. The clutch size of Panthers are generally half that so I'm expecting 20-30 babies but will obviously prep more food if needed. I'll know more whenever the eggs pop.

Definitely don't expect to have issues with selling them. I'll be attending some reptile expos once they're ready and also have a local breeder that I'm working with when it comes time to that part too. Panther chams seem in high demand here in LA area so I'm not expecting that to be an issue.

Mainly doing this because I've had some approach me requesting a baby from my male, and this is something I always was going to get into anyways! Not expecting to pay much at all since I won't be buying feeders (raising all) and just run raising them to 2-3 months old. Got a couple breeders I'm in contact with that's been helping me along the way too

Sorry, I thought you said veileds. My bad. Yes, you’ll have a much easier go of 20 baby panthers, and they’ll seek easier too. Sorry.

 

[Han0915]

Sorry, I thought you said veileds. My bad. Yes, you’ll have a much easier go of 20 baby panthers, and they’ll seek easier too. Sorry.

No need to be sorry! Trust me I would struggle with veileds for sure haha xD Honestly these were my bucket list animals to get and raise for almost 10 years now and only recently did I finally just say "screw it I'm doing this" and am very excited for the journey! : D

 

[snitz427]

My panther girls are 11 months old and are still quite small compared to the males. I will not only be waiting for them to lay their first infertile clutch, but I will also be waiting for them to reach a safe size. I feel they still have some growing to do, and my males are at least 4x the size of the girls.

 

[Han0915]

Interesting, size wise my two are very similar but the male is just only 1-2 months older. I actually took a few pics of her because half of me thinks she may be gravid since she's still non-receptive and is apparently the right color combo that generally shows gravid. She hasn't been inching towards the bottom of the cage to dig, but her lay bin will be set up by Friday just in case. I felt around and don't physically feel the eggs so I think she's just fat lmao. Especially when she scrunches up, then she REALLY looks heavily pregnant.

How is she looking overall? She's still being quaratined so these two won't meet at least for another couple weeks. She's got an outstanding appetite though and is settling well, just hoping to let her get healthy and ready for her first clutch whenever the time comes.

 

[Han0915]

Hmmm so, I'm a little confused.

My female is still non-receptive towards the male. I keep them covered during the day so she doesn't stress, but even when I bring one out and their eyes meet, she goes crazy at him.

I've been monitoring her weight and she still remains 60g. Still can't feel any eggs at the time either so I really don't know if she is gravid with an infertile clutch. From what I seem to understand, if she's non-receptive, it usually means she's not sexually mature OR she already is gravid? Are there other reasons that may be causing this as well, such as temperature, husbandry, etc? I kept her cage the same way the original owner had so as not to stress her. Basically the set up is a ficus tree and some vines with T5 UVB and heat bulb for basking. Also got her a lay bin at the bottom.

I'm just wondering if I should be concerned about anything that could be causing this behavior. Overall, she is very health, a great eater, and seems like a happy critter so I'm hoping it's just her not "being ready" yet.