Cleaning & Updating Enclosure

[Veiled Lady]

Hello all! I am new here and in need of a little help. I was gifted a juvenile female veiled cham for Christmas. I had covid and was sick at the time so was not able to properly set up the enclosure. I am finally at a point of not being sick and in desperate need of updating the enclosure to include a laying bin (Petsmart said it was a male at the time of purchase when in fact it is not) and additional branches and live plants. My cham is still adjusting, although not hiding at the sight of me anymore and coming out when I feed her, but will hide, run from me, and even hissed at me last night when I try to put my hand close to her. I need to move her to a temporary spot so that I can update her enclosure. How do I do this without completely stressing her out? I have attached a pic of my cham, Lady, and her current enclosure set up.

 

[Beman]

You will need to make a lot of changes to the enclosure. Was the picture of her during the day or at night? They should not have any lights on at night.

Looks like your using the chameleon kit UVB lighting... This should be changes out asap to a linear T5HO fixture and a 5.0 or 6% UVB bulb. Then you would want to place this on the screen and have the branch about 8-9 inches below it for the cham to get the correct UVB levels.

Start reading everything in this husbandry program it will help you https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/

 

[Veiled Lady]

Chameleon Info:

• My Chameleon- Female Veiled Cham, approx. 3 to 4 months old (unsure because of lack of records from Petsmart), I have had her since Christmas, she was a gift from my family as I have been reading and researching chams for about 3 years now in preparation to care for one.
• Handling- I have not handled her at all. She was handled at the pet store and by my sister when she first purchased the cham. She comes out for me when it is feeding time and does not hide when I sit near her cage and watch her. She does, however, hide and hiss at me when I place my hand near her.
• Feeding- Feeders are a mix of Dubia roaches, crickets, and mealworms (because this is what pet store was feeding her). I feed her twice a day. Once in the morning (before I leave for work) and once in the afternoon (when I return home from work). Each feeding is 2 roaches and 3 to 4 crickets (sometimes 5 or 6 crickets if they are extra small). In the afternoons, I include 2 to 3 mealworms in the mix. Crickets are gutloaded with a mix of kale, romaine, cucumbers, carrots, potatoes, oranges, and apples. I change up the mix every other day. Crickets also have available regularly Flukers High Calcium Cricket Diet and Flukers Cricket Quencher with Calcium. Dubia roaches are gutloaded with potatoes or apples.
• Supplements- First of the month and last of the month, feeders are dusted with Repticalcium phosophorus-free calcium with D3, Wednesday and Saturday feedings are dusted with Herptivite with Beta Carotene, and every other feeding is dusted with Repticalcium phosophorus-free calcium without D3.
• Watering- I mist 3 times a day with a spray bottle, in the morning before the lights come on, in the afternoon about 2 hours before lights go off, and at night about 2 hours after lights go off. In the enclosure, I have a dripping tree (that I now know I need to take out and replace with a dripper or misting system because of bacteria). I have not seen my cham drink, but know that she is not dehydrated from the urate that can be seen with her feces. It is a bright white in color.
• Fecal Description- Fecal colors are black. They seem of normal consistency based off what I have read. Cham has not been tested for parasites.
• History- I have no previous history as Petsmart did not keep accurate records and gave me a hard time about it when I asked for it. My cham was a christmas gift from my family, however, I was positive with covid the week of christmas and was not able to be around anyone, including the cham. Her enclosure was set up with bare minimum, as my sister was not the one doing the research and was on a budget.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Screened cage, the Reptibreeze starter cham kit to be exact, 16" x 16" x 30". I will be building her a new cage next weekend and intend on it being a 3' x 3' x 4' enclosure that will sit on a stand about 2 foot tall, so that the enclosure will be 6 feet from the ground.
• Lighting- 75 watt Exoterra basking lamp, 24" Arcadia ProT5 6% 24watt UVB Bulb with hood. Both are about 2 to 3 weeks old already. I already knew that I needed to replace the lighting that came with the starter kit and did that first. Lights come on at 8 am and go off at 8 pm (an exact 12 hour schedule). Pet store told my sister to keep night heat lamp on. I have since changed that and do not use it any longer. The picture of her that I have attached is an older picture from when I was using the night lamp.
• Temperature- During the day: basking area is between 75 and 80, cage floor is between 68 and 72 (it has been colder here the last 2 weeks so the heater in the house has been on to keep the house at 71 to 72). At night: temp drops to 71 or 72 at the basking area, unsure about cage floor as I can not see the thermometer in the dark. I have a digital thermometer at the top of the cage near basking area and an analog thermometer near the cage floor (however, I now know that I need to change this out to a digital also)
• Humidity- Before lights come on, humidity is between 40 and 50% after I mist the enclosure with a spray bottle for 2 to 3 minutes. During the day, humidity hovers between 30 and 40%, no misting during the day. 2 hours before lights go off, humidity is at 40% with a short mist (no more than a minute). After lights go out, I mist again for 2 to 3 minutes and humidity will be between 40 and 50%. No fogger is used. No misting system is used. Again, the enclosure was set up for me with bare minimum and a budget. I am working on updates as I go.
• Plants- Currently no live plants in the enclosure. I have a 2ft tall Umbrella tree, a 3 foot tall money tree, a 3 foot tall Colias plant, a small golden pothos, and a baby pothos to add to the enclosure.
• Placement- Enclosure is in my bedroom currently. No traffic with the exception of me and my spouse. It sits in a window ledge. Top of cage is approximately 4 feet from the floor, maybe a few inches more than 4 feet but not much. I am wanting to move the enclosure to on top of my desk, however, so that the top of the cage will then be closer to 6 feet from the floor. I do have a ceiling fan in my bedroom that I keep on all the time, otherwise, the enclosure is not near the vent in the bedroom.
• Location- I am in south Texas, Houston to be exact.

Current Problem: Hopefully I have included enough information for help... I tried to take my time answering all the questions so that I was as exact as I could be. I need to update my cham enclosure to make the necessary changes for live plants and watering systems. However, every time I place my hand in the enclosure near her or to adjust branches or plants, she hides and has even started hissing at me. She changes color to deep brown with black spots and is visibly anxious by me being in her space. She is only ok with me placing her feeders in the cage for her. How do I update her enclosure with as little stress on her as possible? I need to literally change everything about her enclosure, as all the branches and plants are at the walls, she has no laying bin, and moss on the cage floor. She has no live plants, a dripping tree that needs to come out, and not near enough branches to climb on. Her basking branch is too close to the top of the enclosure and needs to be adjusted.
I know that this is normally done before bringing the cham home. I had done my research, just hadn't felt ready to house a cham just yet. Now I have no choice and need to make the necessary changes to give Lady the best set up possible. My family thought they were picking out "a perfect christmas gift" for me, they just didn't execute it properly.

 

[Veiled Lady]

Here is an updated pic. I took this pic yesterday morning after the lights came on and I had put some feeders in her enclosure.
Note: All of my pictures are from a distance using my zoom.

 

[Beman]

Ok I am going to go through your help form. There is going to be a ton of info. There is no way around that. These are one of the more difficult reptiles to keep so every aspect of husbandry really needs to be on point. See my feedback in bold.



Chameleon Info:

• My Chameleon- Female Veiled Cham, approx. 3 to 4 months old (unsure because of lack of records from Petsmart), I have had her since Christmas, she was a gift from my family as I have been reading and researching chams for about 3 years now in preparation to care for one. Are you sure it is female. Would love to see a picture of the back of the back feet. If there is a tarsal spur then you have a male. This is important because female care changes as she matures. They will lay infertile eggs like chickens. So we have to ensure feeding amounts, supplements, and temps are exact to control the clutch size and ensure the eggs develop correctly.
• Handling- I have not handled her at all. She was handled at the pet store and by my sister when she first purchased the cham. She comes out for me when it is feeding time and does not hide when I sit near her cage and watch her. She does, however, hide and hiss at me when I place my hand near her. This is normal Veiled behavior... They do not like people typically. They learn that you are the bringer of the food. And that is about the extent of trust.
• Feeding- Feeders are a mix of Dubia roaches, crickets, and mealworms (because this is what pet store was feeding her). I feed her twice a day. Once in the morning (before I leave for work) and once in the afternoon (when I return home from work). Each feeding is 2 roaches and 3 to 4 crickets (sometimes 5 or 6 crickets if they are extra small). In the afternoons, I include 2 to 3 mealworms in the mix. Crickets are gutloaded with a mix of kale, romaine, cucumbers, carrots, potatoes, oranges, and apples. I change up the mix every other day. Crickets also have available regularly Flukers High Calcium Cricket Diet and Flukers Cricket Quencher with Calcium. Dubia roaches are gutloaded with potatoes or apples. Ok so you want to drop the flukers stuff... All fresh or the premade gutloads by repashy Gutload the crickets and the dubia with the same food. See image below. You should be feeding in the morning so she has the day to digest and at this age you want to be feeding 12-20 feeders. Once we know gender for sure if it is a female I can go over when you will start reducing her food intake. Drop the mealworms... better feeders are the dubia and crickets.
• Supplements- First of the month and last of the month, feeders are dusted with Repticalcium phosophorus-free calcium with D3, Wednesday and Saturday feedings are dusted with Herptivite with Beta Carotene, and every other feeding is dusted with Repticalcium phosophorus-free calcium without D3. Ok so simple way.... All feedings should be calcium without D3. BUT two days a month you want to dust with a D3 and vitamin a multivitamin. I like Repashy LoD version for this. So this would be the 1st and the 15th. Your herptivite does not have vitamin A. So you would drop the other two your using and replace with the repashy calcium plus LoD two times a month only.
• Watering- I mist 3 times a day with a spray bottle, in the morning before the lights come on, in the afternoon about 2 hours before lights go off, and at night about 2 hours after lights go off. In the enclosure, I have a dripping tree (that I now know I need to take out and replace with a dripper or misting system because of bacteria). I have not seen my cham drink, but know that she is not dehydrated from the urate that can be seen with her feces. It is a bright white in color. K you can use something as simple as a plastic solo cup and take a poke a few pin holes in the bottom add ice in the morning and set it on the cage top above plants for her to drink from. Remove the waterer they are no good and bacteria breeding grounds.
• Fecal Description- Fecal colors are black. They seem of normal consistency based off what I have read. Cham has not been tested for parasites.
• History- I have no previous history as Petsmart did not keep accurate records and gave me a hard time about it when I asked for it. My cham was a christmas gift from my family, however, I was positive with covid the week of christmas and was not able to be around anyone, including the cham. Her enclosure was set up with bare minimum, as my sister was not the one doing the research and was on a budget. So they will not know anything about her. Don't waste your breath asking.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Screened cage, the Reptibreeze starter cham kit to be exact, 16" x 16" x 30". I will be building her a new cage next weekend and intend on it being a 3' x 3' x 4' enclosure that will sit on a stand about 2 foot tall, so that the enclosure will be 6 feet from the ground. Consider making it 2 feet deep... Only because reaching back and in to a 3 foot enclosure is a nightmare. Make sure you seal all the wood with something like flex seal and let it gas off for a week or so.
• Lighting- 75 watt Exoterra basking lamp, 24" Arcadia ProT5 6% 24watt UVB Bulb with hood. Both are about 2 to 3 weeks old already. I already knew that I needed to replace the lighting that came with the starter kit and did that first. Lights come on at 8 am and go off at 8 pm (an exact 12 hour schedule). Pet store told my sister to keep night heat lamp on. I have since changed that and do not use it any longer. The picture of her that I have attached is an older picture from when I was using the night lamp. Ok good. So measure your distance from the bottom of the uvb to the branch closest below it. You want 8-9 inches and no closer than that. Keep in mind you will need to replace the bulb every 12 months because they reduce in UVI output.
• Temperature- During the day: basking area is between 75 and 80, cage floor is between 68 and 72 (it has been colder here the last 2 weeks so the heater in the house has been on to keep the house at 71 to 72). At night: temp drops to 71 or 72 at the basking area, unsure about cage floor as I can not see the thermometer in the dark. I have a digital thermometer at the top of the cage near basking area and an analog thermometer near the cage floor (however, I now know that I need to change this out to a digital also) So the max temp at basking should be 80... But at night you want a temp drop. They need the cool down. So turn off vents or whatever you need to. Wanna be able to get that temp down to at least 65 at night.
• Humidity- Before lights come on, humidity is between 40 and 50% after I mist the enclosure with a spray bottle for 2 to 3 minutes. During the day, humidity hovers between 30 and 40%, no misting during the day. 2 hours before lights go off, humidity is at 40% with a short mist (no more than a minute). After lights go out, I mist again for 2 to 3 minutes and humidity will be between 40 and 50%. No fogger is used. No misting system is used. Again, the enclosure was set up for me with bare minimum and a budget. I am working on updates as I go. This is good. First real investment I recommend is a mist king.
• Plants- Currently no live plants in the enclosure. I have a 2ft tall Umbrella tree, a 3 foot tall money tree, a 3 foot tall Colias plant, a small golden pothos, and a baby pothos to add to the enclosure. Wonderful. Pull all fake plants out... All moss too. You can attach the fake plants to the outside of the cage to provide cover. But she will start trying to eat the fake plants. You need 1-2 inch rock to put on top of the soil in the plants this will keep her from eating it. I use the river stones that they sell at the craft stores. The only fake vines I recommend are the fluckers brand. Just watch them for break down and replace as needed. You want multiple sizes for her to have different things to grip.
• Placement- Enclosure is in my bedroom currently. No traffic with the exception of me and my spouse. It sits in a window ledge. Top of cage is approximately 4 feet from the floor, maybe a few inches more than 4 feet but not much. I am wanting to move the enclosure to on top of my desk, however, so that the top of the cage will then be closer to 6 feet from the floor. I do have a ceiling fan in my bedroom that I keep on all the time, otherwise, the enclosure is not near the vent in the bedroom. So out of the window... You will not be able to control ambient temps and winter in a window is a bad combo. Ceiling fan is fine. It will just cycle air. You just do not want it directly over the cage.
• Location- I am in south Texas, Houston to be exact.

Current Problem: How do I update her enclosure with as little stress on her as possible?

Ok so your going to piss her off and that is fine... This is what you do... Get a box put a stick in the bottom for her to grip on to. you need to put her in the box so you can rework the cage. She may get pissy and try to bite. One trick is putting a hand in front of her and a hand behind her to guide her up onto the other hand. Have the box right there for you to immeadiatly drop down into. Babies like to take flying leaps off hands so make this as seamless as possible. She will sleep while she is in the box. Then when your ready its basically the same getting them back in.

 

[Veiled Lady]

Yes. Definitely a female. No tarsal spurs on the back. I know for a fact. This was one of the first things I looked for.

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I am going to start reworking her cage now.

 

[Veiled Lady]

@Beman
Update: took me some time because I had a lot of work to do (about 2.5 hours)... But this is the updated enclosure so far. I still need to get a misting system, but will most likely purchase that when I finish building the larger enclosure. For now, I will add a plastic cup with holes in it on top of the cage to create a dripping system.

Moved the cage away from the window. Temp at basking area immediately raised to 80. Lowered her basking branch, as well as all of her other branches. Added her lay bin. I know it should be opaque, but I added fake foliage on the outside to cover and the umbrella tree inside to cover. Took out the dripping tree. Foliage on the inside is still fake at the moment, but that is due to lack of space to hang the pothos from the side. Will be doing this in the larger enclosure.

First pic is a front view. Second pic is a side view. I may purchase some additional fake foliage to hang from the sides to help keep in the humidity and misting. Plus, I kind of like the way it looks.

Was there anything that I missed? Anything that I still need to do? Definitely open to all critiques.

 

[Beman]

For sure a female... So moss vines will need to go too in the new cage. Order the repashy LOD supplement. Read back through everything I put just to make sure you got all the details. Over all cage looks much more suitable for her. You can get the duct window film and put this on the outside of the cage on the back and two sides. This will help keep in moisture while still allowing for airflow.

Now copy and paste this info... You need to hold on to it. This is what my best friend does with all her females. They either do not lay at all or have a very small clutch once a year. This is what you want to do with your girl. The smaller the clutch the easier for her to lay them and the longer life they have. Now with judging her age for this.... I would go younger than older. 3 months. So for the next 3 months your giving her 12-15 feeders each morning. then at 6 month you start the reduction... Temps are very very important at this point... keep basking more to the 78 if you can. The max would be 80 for her.

As she matures you will have to start cutting back her food. By about 6 months she should be getting about 5-8 small feeders each day. At about 7 months you want to slowly reduce by cutting down feeder amounts so that she is on a feeding schedule of 3 days a week with 3 feeders. You want them to be on this schedule by the time they are 9-10 months old.


You will not ever want basking to be over 78-80 for her. Very important for females because as she ages she needs this temp no higher at basking to help control the amount of eggs she produces.