Chevy went to Vet - Frustrated!

chevycham

Member
Basically I scheduled an appointment with a Vet that I was told specializes in reptiles, and when I made the appoint I asked that question and even said Chameleons and was told yes.

This is not the case! The first Vet sent me to this person and it was a waste of time and money because she told me that giving him supplements was not necessary: No more dusting, no calcium, no nothing. She said I was over doing it, and all I have done is lightly dusting his food every feed with Ca without D3 and just gave him first dose with Ca with D3 and multi vitamin. I told her my concerns and after she said all of this says to me: "I don't know much about Chameleons or Reptiles"??? But she told me what I was doing was bad?

A simple search on the internet you can find info that CLEARLY states the importance of Calcium!

I know you all know this, but I am so frustrated because I have to wait to save up more money before I can take him to another Vet.

So here is how he is acting now, Can you tell me if you think (Think, I understand that you can't guarantee) this needs to be a dire emergency:

He is currently walking all over his cage, was actually climbing up the screen, so because of the danger there, I assumed he must be bored, so for a temporary basis I placed him on a fake tree in my backyard where I am watching him, so he gets direct sunlight. His food intake has decreased in the past few days but I think it is because he is bored there too, so I am working on getting a more variety today. He has shed a little bit on his tail, which before I met you all on here, he didn't shed, but now that I have incorporated supplements, I think he is getting better.

I am worried, but confident that I can care for him, I just need to know at this point what you would suggest.
Giving up is NOT an option nor is giving him back to the pet store which she also said I could do?

Help Please:)

His info is below in case you need it again:
Chameleon Info:
• Your Chameleon – Veiled Chameleon, Male, about 6 months old, Had him since May 09, 2014. (NEW OWNER OF ANY REPTILE)
• Handling – We take him out for maybe an hour. Now that isn’t full handling by us, we hold him for a little bit, but he goes on our tree in the living room and then we generally take him and put him back after about an hour.
• Feeding – Large & Small Crickets about 10 to 12 a day; mealworms about 2 a day; superworms (he has had maybe 2 in the past 2 weeks, they are big, so I try not to give those to him), I am waiting for the silk worms, butter worms and roaches to arrive, He gets fed everyday in the morning about an hour after wake up time. I place the orange cubes in with the crickets along with greens and carrots such as spinach, kale and cauliflower.
• Supplements – Repti Calcium Without D3 at every feed lightly dusted on all crickets, Flukers Calcium With D3 every other Sunday along with Exo Terra Multi Vitamin.
• Watering – Automatic Misting system set at 4 hours for 60 seconds. I have sewen him drink the water that is dripping from leaves. I haven’t seen him do it a lot, but he could be doing it when we aren’t looking so I can’t be 100% on that.
• Fecal Description – Brown and White, same normal amount. No problem here as He goes pretty frequently.
• History – He has MBD. I was helped out my this forum and was told my little guy had MBD and to get to a vet. SO I did. He Was given Calcium then I was told to dust crickets at every feed with the proper supplements as listed above (multi-vitamin and calcium with D3 only every other Sunday). I also began added the veggies in to the crickets diet to give. This all took place around the 22nd of August when he was diagnosed. He was also in a glass enclosure which I changed to a full screen as of Friday with a pothos. I have attached photos. I am not sure if I am just being paranoid because I am a new reptile owner, and it was entirely my fault for the MBD because I was miss-guided by Pets Mart and I should have done more research than I did. Since he was found to have MBD, I have followed instructions and I just want to make sure or ask what you think. He does walk well, doing the dancing walk, he eats pretty well by catching them from around the cage or I made a feeder bowl that he grabs them out of. He hangs from his tail once in a while, he has gotten bigger since I started the new diet and vitamins, he shed with tail only, still haven’t seen his shed the other parts of his body. He climbs without an issue.

Cage Info:
• Cage Type – All Screen, 18 x 18 x 36 (will be getting larger one soon, this was to get him out of the glass quickly).
• Lighting – UVB 5.0 Reptisun, Backing bulb by zoo med at 75W, and the long tube Florissant (have no clue if I spelled that right?). Okay I tuen the lights on when we get up in morning around 8am to 9am and they get turned off at bedtime around 9pm is when we usually put him to bed.
• Temperature – Up at the highest point where he basks it ranges from 85 to 95F, then lower go to around 75ish, at nighttime it seems to go around 70ish, I have an electronic temperature gauge.
• Humidity – this ranges from 40 to 60 depending on when the misters go off of course. I put a live pothos in there as I was told that live plants are much better and would help to maintain humidity.
• Plants – Yes - pothos
• Placement – He is catty corned in the Dining room on top of a stand that elevates its about 3 ft up, ceiling fan in there, but not directly over the cage, no vents over cage either.
• Location – Casa Grande, Arizona
 
I am sorry to hear about your troubles finding a good herp vet. I am VERY lucky to live so close to ferretinmyshoes. She has been a life saver (literally in one or two cases) for my chams.

From the description of his behavior, it sounds to me like he is feeling MUCH better. Everything you mentioned is pretty normal behavior for a male panther. My guy is just over a year old and is constantly climbing all over his cage, screen included. I would be much more concerned if he wasn't climbing all over the cage.

As for feeders, I found blue bottle flies to be VERY enticing to my chams. It seems they cannot refuse them. My boy was on a hunger strike and would eat NOTHING for about a week. The I put some blue bottle flies in and immediately he started chasing them down. The more mobile the feeder, the less likely he will ignore it, in my experience. I have found that free ranging crickets has help to increase his appetite as well, again the more movement the better.

Great job with Chevy, you are doing a great job with him and he is lucky to have an owner that truly cares about his well being.
 
I am sorry to hear about your troubles finding a good herp vet. I am VERY lucky to live so close to ferretinmyshoes. She has been a life saver (literally in one or two cases) for my chams.

From the description of his behavior, it sounds to me like he is feeling MUCH better. Everything you mentioned is pretty normal behavior for a male panther. My guy is just over a year old and is constantly climbing all over his cage, screen included. I would be much more concerned if he wasn't climbing all over the cage.

As for feeders, I found blue bottle flies to be VERY enticing to my chams. It seems they cannot refuse them. My boy was on a hunger strike and would eat NOTHING for about a week. The I put some blue bottle flies in and immediately he started chasing them down. The more mobile the feeder, the less likely he will ignore it, in my experience. I have found that free ranging crickets has help to increase his appetite as well, again the more movement the better.

Great job with Chevy, you are doing a great job with him and he is lucky to have an owner that truly cares about his well being.
Thank you so much:) I was truly in tears upon getting back home because, not in a million years did I expect to be so attached to him. Its like a maternal instinct to just want to make him feel better. I too think he is feeling better.

I am going to ask, but I know the answer, just in case: Should I continue the supplements?

Again thanks so very much:)

I will post some pics of him from last night. He has gotten a little bigger and his colors are beautiful. When I put him to bed last night, he climbed down a bit and then back up onto one of the more horizontal thicker branches and went to sleep with his tail all curled up. It was peaceful to watch.

I do think he is improving, so until I can get to an expert, I am going to stay here in this community to help me with him till that point.

Thanks.
 
First thing I would do is call the vet you saw. Nicely explain you are for, and were told you would be seeing a vet well versed in chameleons. Since the vet you saw is not familiar with chameleon, you not need to see another vet, so you need the money you paid then, for the next vet. Be as nice as you you can, but be ready to persist, ask for the manager is necessary.

Now things I would do for your cham. Put him in his cage, feed, water, clean & leave him completely alone. He needs time for him to get aclimated to his new cage. You need to get everyone in the house to agree to leave him alone. Give it a few days and see if he starts eating. Unless he has stopped eating for a while, I would not worry, chams do go on food strikes. (silly chams:) )
 
First thing I would do is call the vet you saw. Nicely explain you are for, and were told you would be seeing a vet well versed in chameleons. Since the vet you saw is not familiar with chameleon, you not need to see another vet, so you need the money you paid then, for the next vet. Be as nice as you you can, but be ready to persist, ask for the manager is necessary.

Now things I would do for your cham. Put him in his cage, feed, water, clean & leave him completely alone. He needs time for him to get aclimated to his new cage. You need to get everyone in the house to agree to leave him alone. Give it a few days and see if he starts eating. Unless he has stopped eating for a while, I would not worry, chams do go on food strikes. (silly chams:) )
Oh I definitely agree. I did see on here through researching the forum that they need time to adjust we you make changes. So I will just leave him be and everyone also knows as well. I did put a mealworm in his feeding dish, and he turned his head, looked and reached down and suck that baby up! So I do think he is feeling better. But yes I will just leave him be. I actually haven't bothered him so much especially lately because if he does have MBD, his is much more fragile, and I don't want to hurt him. Since 2 weeks ago, I have overwhelmed myself with research and information because it's important to me to know how to care for him properly cause he deserves it.

Vet visit - Oh I have already started that process. I am a Medical Assistant, different from Vets of course, but in general, I know that what they said versus what they provided was really unethical. I spoke to someone, Office Manager, and told her that by them implying that they "specialize in reptiles and told me yes that they can see Chams" it falls along the lines of what we call "up charging for services that were technically rendered". She agreed with me and apologized and I will be receiving the money back.

**There is a place that I found call Arizona Reptile Center in Mesa Arizona" that sounds like a great place to get information, so I am stopping in there later this afternoon to talk to someone.**

Thanks again everyone!
 
I am glad that everything is working out with the vet situation.

In response to your earlier question, YES, continue with the dusting of the feeders. I cannot imagine a qualified Chameleon vet telling you to stop supplementing, though I am not a vet, unless you were overdosing and it needed to get out of their system.
 
Glad you got them to refund your money.

I hope you have read this excellent MBD writeup by one of our forum's chamkeeping veterinarians https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

In addition to daily dusting of feeders lightly with calcium without D3, calcium syrup 1 drop in the AM and another later in the day should be given to correct the deficiency.
The daily calcium without D3 dusting is simply to prevent a calcium deficiency from developing, rather than reversing it.

It's also important to be sure that temperatures are right (basking and ambient) and that the UVB bulb is less than 6 months old---because it will still light up but stops giving off enough UVB.

If the outside temps aren't too high (or too low), some supervised time outside in natural sunlight is wonderful.
Wild chams and chams kept outdoors 24/7 never get any D3 supplements because a cham's body makes exactly the right amount of vitamin D when exposed to sunlight for enough hours each week.
A cage is best outdoors, though because birds do find chams tasty and can steal them away in an instant.
The forum's Veiled cham caresheet is an excellent source of reliable info for all Veiled cham owners https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

I found this on AZ Reptile Center of Mesa's Facebook pagehttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Reptile-Center/120988091258088"Today is a big day for our little conjoined twin dragons! They are going to see our friends Dr. Jay Johnson and staff at Arizona exotic animal hospital for an X-ray and wellness check!"
 
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Glad you got them to refund your money.

I hope you have read this excellent MBD writeup by one of our forum's chamkeeping veterinarians https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

In addition to daily dusting of feeders lightly with calcium without D3, calcium syrup 1 drop in the AM and another later in the day should be given to correct the deficiency.
The daily calcium without D3 dusting is simply to prevent a calcium deficiency from developing, rather than reversing it.

It's also important to be sure that temperatures are right (basking and ambient) and that the UVB bulb is less than 6 months old---because it will still light up but stops giving off enough UVB.

If the outside temps aren't too high (or too low), some supervised time outside in natural sunlight is wonderful.
Wild chams and chams kept outdoors 24/7 never get any D3 supplements because a cham's body makes exactly the right amount of vitamin D when exposed to sunlight for enough hours each week.
A cage is best outdoors, though because birds do find chams tasty and can steal them away in an instant.
The forum's Veiled cham caresheet is an excellent source of reliable info for all Veiled cham owners https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

I found this on AZ Reptile Center of Mesa's Facebook pagehttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Reptile-Center/120988091258088"Today is a big day for our little conjoined twin dragons! They are going to see our friends Dr. Jay Johnson and staff at Arizona exotic animal hospital for an X-ray and wellness check!"
Oh Believe me I have taken full advantage of this forum and all the resources. I have one of those white boards (medium size) on my office wall that has just about run out of space. The care sheets and links have helped so much along with the overwhelming support from lots of people on here. The world of information that I have received whether it was encouragement, advice or instructions is amazing:)

The Calcium Drop amount was a question I was wondering about and now you have answered that. I do have the liquid form and because it absorbs quicker, I would like to get that in his little system.

I was shocked by our Vet visit this morning. Even if the Vet didn't know about Chams in general, being in the medical field myself, when you don't know about something, you go look it up, give what information you can and then tell your patient the necessary road to take. I would never tell a patient that I just don't know, then give advice or criticize what they are already doing especially if I don't even know the correct answer and then pretty much say, Good luck:)

I know not everyone in the Vet business can know every thing about all animals, mammals and everything in-between, but come on folks, I knew more about the Veiled Chams than the Vet did, and I am seriously Cham Dummy! This has definitely opened my eyes though, in a good way.

We are going to keep on going and I am going to stop my AZ Reptile Center tomorrow. We are having a bit of a flooding issue here in Arizona. Desert and water just don't mix well apparently!
 
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