Charlie is sick... Help

[stratoboy]

We got Charlie this spring. He has done great. However the last two days he has been acting really strange. We though maybe he was dehydrated so we gave him a lot of extra water. He has been sinking down on the dirt in the potted plant and propping his face up on the branch. He looks really pitiful. We have been watching him very closely and I cannot tell is there might be something else wrong with him. Will you take a look at him and tell me what you think? He is not eating and he is too weak to climb. Thanks so much

Attached is a pic

 

[ataraxia]

i can tell you that you chameleon probably has mbd. please fill this out COMPLETELY so we can help you correct the problem.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

 

[will187]

i can tell you that you chameleon probably has mbd.

although i really dont have much experience, id second that. i think its pretty cut and dried to be honest. his forearm is bowed and has multiple "elbows" which is a pretty sure sign of mbd. im really sorry to see him like this, but hopefully the great people here can help. all i can recommend is get him to a good cham vet ASAP. MBD is irreversible, but you can stop it getting worse, vets can offer calcium shots etc until he feels a little better. again, im sorry to hear and see these problems, as its something i think we all dread. i really hope he recovers as much as possible, and wish you all the best. im sure the awesome guys'n'gals here will do as much for you as they possibly can. theyre a great bunch
good luck and i hope poor charlie feels better soon.

 

[Thompson]

Definitely MBD here. He needs to be taken to the vet ASAP. Id take him outside as much as possible too. There may be a problem with your husbandry so please fill out the form.

 

[Elizadolots]

Yes. Everything they said.

You don't indicate where you are, but you should check the list of vets by area to find someone close to you with experience. Your chameleon needs a vet.

 

[stratoboy]

So it is the holiday weekend... no vets open for Chameleons. Can I get some calcium drops or soemthing fromt he pet store. Is that all he needs is calcium? Here is a list of his environment and answers to all the questions above. What do I need to change?

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? - Veiled, 5 months, got him at 1 month old from Mike at chameleonsonline.com
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Not very often. He likes his cage
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? - Feeding Pet Smart crickets (medium sized) 3-4 a day. Not gut feeding.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? - none
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? - He hides when we mist most of the time except lately he has not been able to move very much. He did drick out of a spoon for me yesterday and drank a lot until he was done.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Not been tested for parasites. He has white dropping but has had some orange ones lately as I understand that is dehydration. I think he is not dehydrated anymore but he is not moving well. He will not eat and he has always been a big eater.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. - nope, got him at birth almost


Cage Info:

Cage Type - 2Lx2Dx3H is a custom terrarium I built for him. It is built out of 2x2s and home depot plastic screening. Have reptile bark type stuff on the floor
What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? It is a 100W UV reptile light from Pet Smart
What is your daily lighting schedule? Sort of varies but we usually have it on for 3-4 hours and he sits in it the whole time. He also gets evening sun through the window
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? - I guess I need to check this. I do not measure the temp. If he is getting cold will that cause this problem? The house is usually 78 degrees. We live in Texas and it is 108 out for the past 2 months.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I have humidity guage and we spray with a mist bottle about 2-3 times a day. It usually is around 70%
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Yes we are using a live plant. It was is an approved one from the Chameleonsonline.com website. Cant remember the name but it is a twisted bambo type of plant.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? - It is by the window. Yes under a fan and air vents. Top of the cage is about 4.5 feet as the 3 ft cage sits on a 1.5 ft table. Not a high traffic area
Location - Where are you geographically located? - Austin Texas

 

[camimom]

So it is the holiday weekend... no vets open for Chameleons. Can I get some calcium drops or soemthing fromt he pet store. Is that all he needs is calcium? Here is a list of his environment and answers to all the questions above. What do I need to change?

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? - Veiled, 5 months, got him at 1 month old from Mike at chameleonsonline.com
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Not very often. He likes his cage
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? - Feeding Pet Smart crickets (medium sized) 3-4 a day. Not gut feeding.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? - none
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? - He hides when we mist most of the time except lately he has not been able to move very much. He did drick out of a spoon for me yesterday and drank a lot until he was done.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Not been tested for parasites. He has white dropping but has had some orange ones lately as I understand that is dehydration. I think he is not dehydrated anymore but he is not moving well. He will not eat and he has always been a big eater.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. - nope, got him at birth almost


Cage Info:

Cage Type - 2Lx2Dx3H is a custom terrarium I built for him. It is built out of 2x2s and home depot plastic screening. Have reptile bark type stuff on the floor
What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? It is a 100W UV reptile light from Pet Smart
What is your daily lighting schedule? Sort of varies but we usually have it on for 3-4 hours and he sits in it the whole time. He also gets evening sun through the window
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? - I guess I need to check this. I do not measure the temp. If he is getting cold will that cause this problem? The house is usually 78 degrees. We live in Texas and it is 108 out for the past 2 months.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I have humidity guage and we spray with a mist bottle about 2-3 times a day. It usually is around 70%
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Yes we are using a live plant. It was is an approved one from the Chameleonsonline.com website. Cant remember the name but it is a twisted bambo type of plant.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? - It is by the window. Yes under a fan and air vents. Top of the cage is about 4.5 feet as the 3 ft cage sits on a 1.5 ft table. Not a high traffic area
Location - Where are you geographically located? - Austin Texas

Your chameleong will not recover from this. while he may continue to live, the damage is done. Im sorry.
At 5 months, your cham should be eating more than 4 crickets a day. ALso, these crickets should have been gutloaded, which provides nutrients and other vital things for your cham. what the feeders eat, your cham eats.
so first problem- get more feeders, and begin gutloading them. you can gutload them with carrots, oranges, apples, potatoes, mustard greens, dandilion leaves. Im sure others on here will post more info, you can also do a search using gutload and see other peoples recipes.
Second problem- he more than likely developed mbd from lack of supplements. Why have you not used any? You need to start using calcium without d3 and phosphorus for every feeding, calcium with d3 two times a month, and a multivitamin. Side note- you probably wont find the calcium withou d3 at petsmart or petco, you will more than likely have to order it online.
How often are you misting? this probably isnt a contributing factor, but still good to know. I mist my veiled about 5 times a day for at least a minute or two.
His poops- what does bright colors mean? ar they brown and white?
Saw you said they are orange now, yes this means dehydration, so start misting more.
Do you mean you have bark on th efloor of his cage? if so, remove it. this causes impaction if he eats it (either intentionally, or when going after an insect).
as for the bulb, no. you need a reptiglo or reptisun 5.0 uvb bulb, and a regular 50-60 watt house bulb. the house bulb is for basking.
While cold may not cause the mbd, it isnt helping. You need to check his temps. male veileds like temps at the hottest point (top of the cage) around 80-85, and have temp drops as you go down the cage to the bottom.
BTW, your cham is not gettting uvb rays from the window.
take your cham outside everyday until, he gets to the vet. natural uvb is so much better for them. if the temps are around 100, take him out for an hour, then bring him back in for an hour,t hen do this throughout thte day.
Now, the vet should take xrays and such to test for mbd and to determine how low his calcium levels are. however, as previous posters said, double joints and bowed legs are a beacon light that points at mbd.
more than likely he will get a subq injection of calcium, and you will probably be sent home with liquid calcium, and probably other stuff.
After the vet visit, post here and tell us what the vet says.
Depending upon how he feels in a few weeks, you may have to build a different enclosure for him. Some members on here that have chams with mbd, have found that thye have trouble getting around, and with falling, so they will build a cage taht is wider and not as tall, so the cham has mnore horizontal space than vertical. this makes it so the cham can just walk, as aposed to having to climb, which is more strenuous, ntm, when climbing they can fall easier.
We can talk about that more once hes been evaluated.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[carol5208]

Camimom gave you some soild good advice here. I would like to add that your UVB and basking light need to be on 12 hours a day and 12 off, NOT 3 or 4. I am a little suprised that the breeder you got him from did not give you any information on how to raise a healthy chameleon and what was necessary to do so. I am puzzled on that one. Not sure what light you have been using, as the petstores sell lights that are incorrect and yours may not even be a UVB light at all. As suggested get him to the vet and make the other changes and you can atleast get your chameleon on the right track. Good luck to you.

 

[ShortStack]

This was bumped because the Op really needs to see this.

 

[stratoboy]

Thanks all for the help. I went to Pet Smart and got some liquid calcium and protein boost stuff (Flukers Repta+Boost). I got him to drink maybe half a cc. He does not look dehydrated anymore which is good he just can't move very well at all and is not eating anything.
I called every vet in town (Austin) and all the reptile specialists in the emergncy hospitals are not here for the weekend holiday. So look like I am stuck until Tuesday. I hope he makes it.
Here is what I am doing. I have his light on and he seems to be soaking it in. It is a ZooMed Repti Basking lamp. Says it provideds beneficial UVA rays for reptiles. It is 100Watts
Any other ideas to make him more comfortable until Tuesday?

 

[stratoboy]

This was bumped because the Op really needs to see this.

What does this mean?

 

[camimom]

This was bumped because the Op really needs to see this.

What does this mean?

The person wanted you to read it asap.
As for the bulb you just got, uva doesnt help. you need UVB! The bulb you got is a basking bulb, not uvb! you need two bulbs, basking and uvb.
reptiglo or reptisun 5.0 bulbs for uvb.
take your cham outside for natural sunlight. Did you read what i posted previously? do everything I suggested until your vet appt.
If you dont want to go buy another bulb, take your cham outside for as much outside time as possible. immediately.

 

[Thompson]

For a five month old he should be eating up to 8-10 crickets a day. Get those supps camimom mentioned or you can go with the easier supp Calcium-plus that provides everything in one. You also need to measure that basking temp. A 100 watt bulb could be cooking the poor guy! Go to walmart and get a digital thermometer. I also saw that you have his cage near an air vent. Please move his cage to a different location. He could develop a URI while his cage is under the air vent.

 

[camimom]

For a five month old he should be eating up to 8-10 crickets a day. Get those supps camimom mentioned or you can go with the easier supp Calcium-plus that provides everything in one. You also need to measure that basking temp. A 100 watt bulb could be cooking the poor guy! Go to walmart and get a digital thermometer. I also saw that you have his cage near an air vent. Please move his cage to a different location. He could develop a URI while his cage is under the air vent.

For my own knowledge, if someone were to use the calcium plus, how often would they use it in, if it contains everything i had previously mentioned?
i mena i dust every feeding with something, depending on what day it is, so would an all in one supplement be used less?

 

[Thompson]

For my own knowledge, if someone were to use the calcium plus, how often would they use it in, if it contains everything i had previously mentioned?
i mena i dust every feeding with something, depending on what day it is, so would an all in one supplement be used less?

Nope, you use it every day you feed I guess it has the right amounts of d3 and vitamins to be used every feeding.

 

[camimom]

Nope, you use it every day you feed I guess it has the right amounts of d3 and vitamins to be used every feeding.

hmmm, intresting. i take it you use this stuff?
is it actually called calcium plus, like thats the maker? and where did you get it, did you have to order it?

 

[Thompson]

Yes I use it and it's called Calcium Plus by Rapashy. You can get it from the kammers and order it from their website. I got mine from Pangea though.

 

[camimom]

Yes I use it and it's called Calcium Plus by Rapashy. You can get it from the kammers and order it from their website. I got mine from Pangea though.

cool. gonna get some when im ordering supplies for my new hoe. THANKS!

 

[carol5208]

wow, your chameleon has had no UVB lighting. It is vital for his health and well being. No uvb=MBD. Please get the correct lighting ASAP and get him out in the sun as much as possible as mentioned.

 

[stratoboy]

Ok. Put Charlie out in the sun for about 2 hours. He is still laying on the dirt and there does not seem to be a big change. I will keep him in the sunlight regularly until I can pick up a better light. The one I had before this light (which I just got 1 week ago) was one of thos infrared ones and I am thinking maybe since then he has not had proper UVB. Thanks for all the help.

Any tips on getting hm to eat? I cannot give him calcium if he is not eating. help!!!