Chameleons not making good pets?!! What!?!

[Atlas chameleon]

As i was looking best pet lizards I came a cross chameleons and it said they are extremely hard pets,very pitty,and not playful.WHAT!?! I couldn't believe what I was seeing I did understand the part of special lightings and humidity.So I looked up chameleons as pets and it said there fun to watch,there blah blah and so on until the part I wanted to see and it said: You can't cuddle with them which is not true,that there very mean that depends on many things and almost never handle them!?! If you don't handle them they won't get used to you and we'll be grumpy and mean towards you and others.
I have a veiled chameleon and I can play with even cuddle and is very nice.
In conclusion what I don't like is people saying there bad pets when they can be really awesome pets.

 

[Sticktongue]

Absolutely incorrect. They do not like to be cuddled, and typically do not like to be handled. can you post some pictures of your chameleon being cuddled?

 

[Sticktongue]

Read the post by @jajeanpierre in this thread.it explains things very well.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads

Can't get a link to work from my phone... go do a search for a thread called ug, or could someone help me out and post that link to this thread ?

 

[Atlas chameleon]

Most chameleons do like to be handled and have to be if you want to tame them

 

[Sticktongue]

Very much disagree but I see an argument coming that I won't have time to get into today. I'll leave this to someone else.

 

[distortionz]

They are pretty much a display animal. Can they be handled? Yes. Do they benefit from being handled? No. Will most tolerate it? Yes. Unnecessary handling and cuddling will lead to stress.

 

[Atlas chameleon]

Know that's true

 

[MatthewGregory]

Yeah i notice a lot of people who say they hold their cham everyday, post a pick of their panther or veiled with its beard all puffed out. This is a sign he is pissed

 

[Nursemaia]

Chams are look at pets not play with pets. Most do not want to be handled.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Most chameleons do like to be handled and have to be if you want to tame them

I disagree to both your statements:
1. that most chameleons enjoy being handled by humans; and,
2. that they "have to enjoy being handled in order to tame them. It is quite possible to tame a very wild animal without ever taking its fear of you away.

See this thread for my argument against your first hypothesis (Message #7):
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/ug.154412/#post-1316107

Here is my rebuttal to your second hypothesis, that they must enjoy being handled to be tamed. On the contrary, they can be quite wild and fearful but still learn to become habituated to scary humand monsters.

When adult parrots were being imported in very large numbers, one very successful "taming" technique was to reward the parrot for allowing a human close by retreating from it. Yes, you read that correctly.

Here is how it was done:

Terrified adult parrot on perch, preferably in walk-in cage.

Trainer approaches to parrot to the point where parrot begins to show stress. Parrots, unlike chameleons, are very very easy to note exactly where that line is. They will slick their feathers down tight, stand tall on their perch--all kinds of really obvious displays that are easily seen. That distance from the parrot is marked and the trainer retreats. So, now the trainer knows how close s/he can get to the parrot before it becomes uncomfortable.

The trainer moves to this mark and backs away immediately. The reward for the parrot is the human going away.

Next, the trainer moves closer to the parrot, but not close enough to trigger escape behavior and rewards the parrot by immediately retreating.

It helps is there is a way to offer a food reward without stressing the animal, but it can be done with the reward simply being the trainer backs out of that zone where the bird is uncomfortable but not so uncomfortable that it uses escape/avoidance behaviors.

Very soon the parrot learns that in order to get the scary monster human out of its space, it just has to allow said scary monster close. Eventually the parrot will allow handling and hopefully over time becomes habituated to the monster's presence and becomes tame since it has learned it has never been attacked/eaten by the monster in the past, it won't (likely) be eaten in the future.

That is how a wild animal can be tamed without it ever enjoying the presence of a human.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Read the post by @jajeanpierre in this thread.it explains things very well.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads

Can't get a link to work from my phone... go do a search for a thread called ug, or could someone help me out and post that link to this thread ?

@Sticktongue Is this what you were looking for?

My apologies for my very long-winded responses to behavior problems, but I want to back up my opinions with the science of applied behavior analysis. Like all students of a certain professor's class, I promised to go forth and spread the science of applied behavior analysis to people who have never taken a psychology class in their lives. It makes the world a kinder, gentler place for animals and children. The science of applied behavior analysis that works when training wild parrots works just as well on children, even difficult ones, and husbands.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/ug.154412/#post-1316107 Message #7

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

Chameleons are not talkative and their expressions not always easy to read! We therefore interpret their actions and assume what they like and what not. In general it may be true that a lot of chameleons do not like being handled. But, I feel 100% certain that most of my chameleons do not look distressed or show distress at being handed! As a matter of fact Narnia the guy in the last few pictures often refuse to eat unless he gets attention first! He is very cudly! He never, ever shows agression! We do not breed/keep agressive breeders! We handle the hatchlings frequently through the day from the moment they hatch and we do a lot of hand feeding! We do not mass produce/breed! We only do a few clutches a year in order to have the time to cuddle with every chameleon! I wish everyone who thinks that my statements are impossible could come over here and play with my chameleons! Your minds will be changed! I promise!

 

[Sticktongue]

@jajeanpierre that is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for taking the tome to write that up, I knew my visits would be short nd quick today so I wouldn't be able to do that.

@Matt Vanilla Gorilla i have seen a couple chams like yours but it's pretty rare. The other panthers I can think of were free ranged full time and always climbed onto the owner @sdheli420 .

However, I can't even count how many posts and threads I've seen that people say their chams are tame and love to cuddle, when they are super stressed but the owner has no idea due to being a novice (obviously not meaning you @Matt Vanilla Gorilla

 

[alphakenc]

My female panther up till these day haven't got aggressive with me

Raise her since she was a baby

Group taming with endless time

My cham in other people's hand

Another people hand

In my opinion it will be how u raise them,cause they dont see me as a threat,n I dedicated my time just for these babies I raised.
So its how u raise n how much time u spending with them
These are just my opinion base on how I raise my panther babies and my veiled (from the past),so it doesn't include other type of the chameleons.
And so far so good when I interact with them.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

In Africa, witch doctors raise poisonous snakes in their home, not in any cage, just slithering around at free will! At night the snakes crawl in bed with them! Having "power over nature" is what gives the witch doctor power over the people! Chameleons are much safer to tame! Lol!

 

[leedragon]

I believe it is a great difference between an animal being used to a human and like to cuddle. these two should never being synonyms.

Chameleons may get use to a person and eventually not stress about it ( perhaps).
I however do not see chameleons like to cuddle. they do not have the brain structure ( I belive. someone correct me on this one) and do not show affections as mammals do. To say this or do this is to dangerosly anthropomorphize the animal. to expose the chameleon to other chameleons in order for it to become social will end in the animal dying of stress eventually. However, some species of chameleons had being keep in groups in proper free range set ups. but even with a large permanted free range there is no guarantees

No chameleons do not make good pets. in the sense that you are having an animal to pet as a cat or dog. they are more a hobby and interrest animal to observe and buil a hobby around it. designing it´s terrarium, variating its food, loking at it chazing its food, hatching youngs and such. kinda like a living train model or a land living fish tank.

 

[CandyCham]

I think what makes a good pet is an animal that can thrive in captivity. If they don't like being cuddled, that doesn't make them bad pets. I mean, you don't cuddle with fish and they are a staple pet. Being a great pet depends on many factors... dogs make great pet for those who love a dogs company... likewise with chameleons. Someone who doesn't appreciate chameleons, of course, won't enjoy them as pets and for them they will never be a good pet. It's rather simple.

 

[KeopiCat]

I think that it depends how you define the word "pet".
If you think of a pet as being an animal that you snuggle up with and touch, then no, chameleons are bad pets.
However, I (and most likely other people too) define a pet as an animal that you own, love, and consider to be part of your family, and would therefore say that chameleons can make wonderful pets

 

[CandyCham]

As i was looking best pet lizards I came a cross chameleons and it said they are extremely hard pets,very pitty,and not playful.WHAT!?! I couldn't believe what I was seeing I did understand the part of special lightings and humidity.So I looked up chameleons as pets and it said there fun to watch,there blah blah and so on until the part I wanted to see and it said: You can't cuddle with them which is not true,that there very mean that depends on many things and almost never handle them!?! If you don't handle them they won't get used to you and we'll be grumpy and mean towards you and others.
I have a veiled chameleon and I can play with even cuddle and is very nice.
In conclusion what I don't like is people saying there bad pets when they can be really awesome pets.

Chameleons that I know of, can become accustomed to being handled without being fearful and at times, my cham would often want to roam around outside of her cage or chill on me somewhere but I don't think chameleons really have the capacity to have emotions for us. With that being said, being accustomed to being handled and not feel afraid of you is just not the same as coming up to you for affection.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

I strongly feel that by working at breeding chameleons for character, I am giving both chameleons and man kind the best of both worlds! Why should pet chameleons live in fear or anxiety? It is just not fair! I strongly reccomend that people try and tame their chameleons to decrease the amount of fear and anxiety they feel when they have to be handled (for outside in the sun time, because their cage needs cleaning, for when they have to visit the vet etc.). Once again, in general, a lot of chameleons out there can not become as tame as most of my breeders. Character does have a genetic component as well as a nurture component! When young chameleons leave my care to go to their forever homes they are totay fine with frequent (more than once a day) handling! They all hand feed when they leave my care! I cannot guarantee that the new owner will keep up the gentle respectful and trust building handling, care and relationship (especially when they go through puberty - this includes females - and they feel the urge to have more dominance over their environment), but that is how they leave my home! In order to accomplish this everyone in my family (we are a family of 4) is involved with the chameleon care and we do not mass produce chameleons! I can also guarantee that every chameleon that I have bred and raised to adulthood has retained their sweet cuddly disposition! No, getting rich has nothing to do with why I breed chameleons! Lol.