Chameleons at local reptile show.

[Rst_Cham]

We went to our local reptile show today to pick up some feeders and supplies. We've never been before and thought it would be fun to look around. Uh, no. There were several vendors selling chameleons; one vendor had a beautiful male panther that they were letting people hold for $5 each. Odd, right? He was really fired up so likely stressed! They were letting kids pet him too. They were also selling babies, marked as 4-5 months but they were so tiny! My 4 month old panther is huge compared to those babies. Another vendor had adult chams in the same enclosure together. Another was selling a large adult in a really small enclosure, as a complete setup. It had one branch and a small fake plant. I hate to think someone is going to think that is a good setup for him. And worst of all another vendor opened an enclosure, and literally yanked an adult male panther off his branch with both hands and thrust him at a customer who had asked if chameleons liked being handled. The poor chameleon FREAKED out, of course.

Not going to a reptile show again, it was even worse than going to the pet store.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

Which one did you go to? Where are you located? There was one in Denver this weekend that I couldn't go to do to work but I hope you're not talking about that one

 

[Rst_Cham]

Which one did you go to? Where are you located? There was one in Denver this weekend that I couldn't go to do to work but I hope you're not talking about that one

Yep, the Denver one.

 

[CamoChameleonsHuman]

Yep, the Denver one.

That's terrible to hear. Glad I didn't go. I know my feeder shop owner was going and bringing an Oustalet with him he tried selling to me.

 

[Clayton0520]

We just had the NARBC ( North American reptile breeders convention ) here in Arlington. It was awesome!!! But several weekends ago we had ANOTHER convention that wasn’t on the up and up, I saw many cages of chameleons that had several chameleons in them. I actually saw a cage of veileds that had 2 of them fighting. It was very crazy too see after I’ve read and heard so much about not housing chameleons together. It kinda made me sad and mad at the vendors who were presenting thier animals this way.

 

[Thehippie]

yea the western md show was no good either they were selling chams in small deli cups who were at least 6 months old it was crazy to see!! even some gravid females n those cups!!!

 

[Rst_Cham]

That's terrible to hear. Glad I didn't go. I know my feeder shop owner was going and bringing an Oustalet with him he tried selling to me.

The only good thing I got out of going was some supplies/feeders from Josh's frogs, and meeting an awesome reptile veterinarian.

 

[Rst_Cham]

We just had the NARBC ( North American reptile breeders convention ) here in Arlington. It was awesome!!! But several weekends ago we had ANOTHER convention that wasn’t on the up and up, I saw many cages of chameleons that had several chameleons in them. I actually saw a cage of veileds that had 2 of them fighting. It was very crazy too see after I’ve read and heard so much about not housing chameleons together. It kinda made me sad and mad at the vendors who were presenting thier animals this way.

Yikes! I felt the same, sad and mad. My 14 year old son was with me and he was fuming upset by it all too.

 

[Rst_Cham]

yea the western md show was no good either they were selling chams in small deli cups who were at least 6 months old it was crazy to see!! even some gravid females n those cups!!!

What?! That's insane, poor chameleons!

 

[Dave85731]

You have to remember that a vendor is only there for 2 days it’s perfectly normal for all that to be going on doesn’t mean they’re living like that for ever it’s a show that’s how it goes you can’t knock them for how they do it.. without them we wouldn’t have expos to go to

 

[Thehippie]

yes but I saw a vender with small reptibreezes for chams they were selling and chams in deli cups at the other vendor, I thik the first vendor treated their animals better and would rather buy from them.

You have to remember that a vendor is only there for 2 days it’s perfectly normal for all that to be going on doesn’t mean they’re living like that for ever it’s a show that’s how it goes you can’t knock them for how they do it.. without them we wouldn’t have expos to go to

 

[Dave85731]

Some vendors present them selves better than others there’s no right or wrong way when working a expo I see it all the time some big chams kept in small cages 10 veilds in one end cage same with Jackson’s but it’s just temporary 2 days the longest it won’t kill them after the show they go back to their normal cages if they don’t all sell

 

[Eddie3187]

Yea I went to that show today as well. I definitely had some concerns about some of the vendors. Especially those beautiful Ambilobe and tamatave panthers being handled for 5$. The Sambava panthers they had for 450$ with the setups was terrible. Those cages were so bare and entirely to small for them.
At the same time I can see the business aspect of it. It’s sad to look at but those vendors concern is primarily just money. I almost bought that beautiful bright orange tamatave because I felt so bad for him. I was just afraid with how stressed out he was.

 

[Dave85731]

You gotta look at it from all directions here also.. it cost a lot of money to work expos... you think raising hatchlings is expensive? Try working expos there’s a lot of care going on to get there... and you said sambava 450 with a small cage of you ask me that’s a deal... try finding a sambava right now let me know how that goes how much you spend just for the lizard it’s self so look at the bright side 450 and a carrier for free... bottom line expos are meant to buy things not set up for judgement you don’t go there crying about how venders set up... not trying to be mean about but take your concerns to real breeders that do these things on a regular and see what response you get

 

[Rst_Cham]

I understand what you're saying, I definitely tried to keep that in mind, and reminded myself and my son that these were just temporary conditions for the animals. It still wasnt a good experience for us so we'll just avoid expos in the future and buy any future pets from private breeders that we trust.

 

[Rst_Cham]

Yea I went to that show today as well. I definitely had some concerns about some of the vendors. Especially those beautiful Ambilobe and tamatave panthers being handled for 5$. The Sambava panthers they had for 450$ with the setups was terrible. Those cages were so bare and entirely to small for them.
At the same time I can see the business aspect of it. It’s sad to look at but those vendors concern is primarily just money. I almost bought that beautiful bright orange tamatave because I felt so bad for him. I was just afraid with how stressed out he was.

He was very beautiful and definitely seemed stressed and I just worried about someone buying him with that setup thinking it was complete. But I guess the same thing happens at pet stores every day.

I just made a mistake taking my son. After a day of seeing all that and watching/listening to people, he came away upset by it all. I've always taught him that with animals come great responsibility, and we take pet care (and even insect care) very seriously at our house. Seeing that chameleon be man handled and thrashing about violently was hard after I've been telling him what delicate creatures they are and how gentle and respectful we should be.

 

[Graves923]

Shows are stressful for chams. Its more cost efficient for the vendors to display the chams in less ideal enclosures due to space constraints. We had a pet expo that featured a reptile vendor area and one vendor had probably half the floor space. Hundred of snakes, lizards, spiders and supplies. All were kept in small enclosures. Adult female veiled in a 16" square screen cage was the most shocking to me. The chameleons especially were not ideally housed but I can understand why the vendors do it.

I did ask the vendor why he had about 15 baby veiled all in one small 16"x16"x16" cage and he said its only for expo purposes and that they are kept in bigger enclosures when not at expos. I dont like it but I can understand why. Atleast these chams arent in these conditions for weeks or months like the chams at petco and petsmart...

 

[Calypratus]

I once saw a vedor at a the 2018 June repticon keep a massive male veiled (he was at least two ft long). In this little plastic display case. He was kept near other males and was all fired up ( not to mention he could not move). I really hope they were only doing it for the display reasons

 

[Char333p]

You have to remember that a vendor is only there for 2 days it’s perfectly normal for all that to be going on doesn’t mean they’re living like that for ever it’s a show that’s how it goes you can’t knock them for how they do it.. without them we wouldn’t have expos to go to

I agree... they are ,technically sales people. But i also agree that its not approprate or acceptable.

 

[mae_day]

I went to the Denver show on Sunday. I was really upset about all the poor chams. I kept thinking that $5 per photo definitely won't make up for such a pretty baby dropping dead from stress.

Ah well, it was good to meet the Josh's Frogs people and 5280 Reptile Room totally dominated the sales floor. Love them!