Chameleons and people

@Calummaty Jane

I don't keep the sundews and butterworts in my enclosure, they sit on a windowsill next to my enclosure. I'm sure I could make it work, but I'd be worried about the chams getting into a gooey mess lol. I have one nepenthes growing in the center of my parsons enclosure though, I also have bromeliads growing at the top of the enclosure out of some branches, and jeweled orchids down In the substrate(because they like low light). I use 6500k jungle dawn megaspotts alongside the t5ho and t8 5000k LEDS(I use t8s sometimes when it's too hot in the summer for t5s). The watering takes some strategizing with your substrate, I also use a lot of epiphytes. A lot of sand in the substrate helps drainage. I'll post some pictures of my jeweled orchids, broms, and nepenthes in my one enclosure. I drilled holes in the log at the top and put the ends of the bromeliads in, over time they anchored on and have been throwing tons of pups. Right now the growth has stalled a bit since temps are down to 50s for brumation with lower lighting and water, but in the summer it takes off. My nepenthes threw off like 5 monster pitchers in a couple months of being in there.
That is beautiful! What are the dimensions of the viv? Also, what kind of nepenthes is it, do you know?

I'd be interested in doing a planted wall in a large enough viv, with butterworts, sundews and cephalotus planted on the side. If the viv was wide enough, branches and stuff could be moved away from the wall enough to keep the cham from having regular contact with the dewey carnivore plants.
 
For fun a bulbophyllum I currently have in bloom View attachment 223382
Yes!!!!! I looooooove the weird bulbophyllums! Is this one B. fascinator, by chance? Does it have a bad smell? I guess if chams don't have sensitive noses, it all works out well. I didn't know the anti-cancer thing about dendrobiums. I assume they have to be eaten to help with that?

You have a great set up...definitely along the lines of what I have in mind.

On a semi-related note, do any folks with larger vivs co-house geckos and chams? Before you get alarmed, I'm definitely not planning anything, but I did read the Uroplatus book by Svatek, van Duin and Verlag and they have a short chapter describing a "winter garden" (just an enclosed patio that is temp and humidity-controlled for tropical plants) where one author keeps a couple chameleons (doesn't mention the species) and numerous Uroplatus and has done so for years and breeding the Uroplatus. They state that the chams being diurnal and the geckos being nocturnal makes the situation work. I would move out of my co-op in a heartbeat if I could move into home where I could easily make a set up like this....
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you!! If you make a bio wall, use a 1 inch tree fern or I have seen coconut fiber between 2 pieces of plastic mesh stuff 1 inch think with live plants zip tied together, after the plants get going they hold it together, full of small dendrobiums, bulbophyllums, cattleyas, they look so cool in bloom!! All the plants all have to grow in similar climate though or roughly the same altitude, on a wall 1 inch thick air can pass through purifies the air, nepanthes is a very large plant genus, what I have is a pendulous thornless cactus not sure the name, it was a gift from a friend, the bulbophyllum is putidum x ornatissimum, so you guessed close, I have a bulbophyllum coriliferum going into bloom thats in a viv, my cham messed up one of the inflourescences, because he likes to sleep hanging from the leaves sometimes, the big viv I posted is 36 high 25 deep and 51 long, I have a bunch of orchids going into bloom, multifloral paphs from 3 different sub species, brachypetalum, parvisepelaum, bulbophyllums and cattleyas I'm going to have a good spring
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
Housing geckos and chams together is a bad idea if you plan on keeping the geckos, the geckos would have to be nocturnal that would literally have to hide under rocks during the day, chameleons are very very territorial and alpha (aggressive) and will protect their domain with tenacity!! The smaller viv I have is 24 x 24 x 45 and houses a male, I ponder that beiing too small, time will tell
 

iMi

Established Member
We have a cat and a dog and there is absolutely no problem. I would say with a proper setup you should have no concerns.
 
We have a cat and a dog and there is absolutely no problem. I would say with a proper setup you should have no concerns.
Housing geckos and chams together is a bad idea if you plan on keeping the geckos, the geckos would have to be nocturnal that would literally have to hide under rocks during the day, chameleons are very very territorial and alpha (aggressive) and will protect their domain with tenacity!! The smaller viv I have is 24 x 24 x 45 and houses a male, I ponder that beiing too small, time will tell
Yes, this woman keeps her reptiles in a gigantic indoor garden. I don't know what she does with the chameleons, but she is an experienced uroplatus breeder and researcher--she co-authored the "bible" of the genus, afterall--so she must know her stuff, but I guess her space is large enough that geckos and chams easily stay out of each other's way, no problem. Or maybe it's just luck and magic that has kept her geckos alive.
 

salty dog

Chameleon Enthusiast
With a large greenhouse or full patio conversion that could be possible, if they are both native to the same spot, then I imagine they evolved to coexist... she probably really knows what she is doing, that coupled with luck, my chams forage around quite a bit, sometimes I'll see them catch a cricket in the cage, that I had no idea was there
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
That is beautiful! What are the dimensions of the viv? Also, what kind of nepenthes is it, do you know?

I'd be interested in doing a planted wall in a large enough viv, with butterworts, sundews and cephalotus planted on the side. If the viv was wide enough, branches and stuff could be moved away from the wall enough to keep the cham from having regular contact with the dewey carnivore plants.
It is ~about 4 feet wide x 4 feet tall x 2 feet deep. Just a large atrium dragonstrand, very nice enclosure. My buddy and I build a stand to fit it and hold 2 feet deep of substrate and drainage leading out the back door of the house. Enclosure is actually small for those species, but he's still young. By next year I will want to have something built at least twice as large. The plan is to have a living wall, planted substrate, and maybe even a well-filtered stream going through it just for the fun of it. Sorry I can't remember which nepenthes it is, I have a few and stupidly removed the labels.

As for the geckos, mixing species is a touchy subject. What you'll hear a lot is "if you have to ask, dont do it!". Chams are very territorial and get angry at even the sight of some insects let alone other lizards. I do know people with large patio sized arrangements(like 20 feet wide). In the right circumstances a lot is possible, but for 99% of keepers without the space or experience it's not recommended. The person you know with multiple chameleons, do they happen to be melleri? They are very large, and have some special requirements, but are the only chams besides pygmies to thrive in groups(that I know of). It's also important to consider thriving vs surviving. Many people have had animals survive for years, but that doesn't mean it was thriving. Not saying one way or another in this case, just tossing that out there. And I plan to add mourning geckos to my enclosure one day, but as food :wideyed:
 

mkeBob

Established Member
In your original post you stated you were leaning toward a panther. Why not get a smaller species such as the carpet chameleon, F. lateralis. I've got a pair in two 18"x18"x24" Exo-Terra planted bio setups. They sit side by side on the third shelf from the floor at 45" on a shelving unit that measures 18"x42"x72".

I also have a cat and dog and they don't even attempt jumping that high. Plus you have glass enclosures which are great at holding the humidity required for chameleons and plants.

Check out the pics from Frank Payne in the Chameleons For Sale forum.
 
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jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Giving people advice of Keeping dogs cats and chameleons together is great!!
Yes everyone is keeping all 3 in the same enclosure. I'm pretty sure in the care sheets it says the recommend size for a medium sized dog, small cat, and a Petco sized veiled is one zoo med reptibreeze chameleon kit.
 
It is ~about 4 feet wide x 4 feet tall x 2 feet deep. Just a large atrium dragonstrand, very nice enclosure. My buddy and I build a stand to fit it and hold 2 feet deep of substrate and drainage leading out the back door of the house. Enclosure is actually small for those species, but he's still young. By next year I will want to have something built at least twice as large. The plan is to have a living wall, planted substrate, and maybe even a well-filtered stream going through it just for the fun of it. Sorry I can't remember which nepenthes it is, I have a few and stupidly removed the labels.

As for the geckos, mixing species is a touchy subject. What you'll hear a lot is "if you have to ask, dont do it!". Chams are very territorial and get angry at even the sight of some insects let alone other lizards. I do know people with large patio sized arrangements(like 20 feet wide). In the right circumstances a lot is possible, but for 99% of keepers without the space or experience it's not recommended. The person you know with multiple chameleons, do they happen to be melleri? They are very large, and have some special requirements, but are the only chams besides pygmies to thrive in groups(that I know of). It's also important to consider thriving vs surviving. Many people have had animals survive for years, but that doesn't mean it was thriving. Not saying one way or another in this case, just tossing that out there. And I plan to add mourning geckos to my enclosure one day, but as food :wideyed:
The lady with the uroplatus geckos and chams living together isn't someone I know--she's a co-author of a recommended book on uroplatus. The book doesn't talk about chams at all, so no specification as to which chams she keeps with her geckos, but the enclosure they all live in is the size of a large room. I was just curious if anyone here had heard of, or had themselves attempted keeping noctural reptile species with their chameleons.
 
In your original post you stated you were leaning toward a panther. Why not get a smaller species such as the carpet chameleon, F. lateralis. I've got a pair in two 18"x18"x24" Exo-Terra planted bio setups. They sit side by side on the third shelf from the floor at 45" on a shelving unit that measures 18"x42"x72".

I also have a cat and dog and they don't even attempt jumping that high. Plus you have glass enclosures which are great at holding the humidity required for chameleons and plants.

Check out the pics from Frank Payne in the Chameleons For Sale forum.

Thanks! I'm also looking into carpet chameleons and other species. Good to know others' experiences!
 
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