Chameleon suddenly weak and idle

[Etheoffo]

So quick little background. Back in February my Cham had some major muscle spasms, so bad that he couldn’t even sit still. I brought him to the vet immediately and they diagnosed him with parasites. They told me I can either give him parasite medication and see if that works or do blood testing and whole body testing for $600. So I chose the medication. About a week later his spams stopped and everything went back to normal. Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago his spasms came back but this time they were very minor, barely even noticeable. I made another vet appointment right away (the first place I took him was a pet emergency room, this place was his primary vet) Before I could even take him to the vet again the spasms stopped and once again everything seemed normal but I took him anyway.

It’s been about 1 week since I took him to the vet. At the vet I explained the muscle spasm situation and how I had to rush him to the hospital and they came to the conclusion that it was calcium deficiency instead of parasites and they gave me a liquid calcium supplement daily. Ever since that visit a week ago he has not eaten anything, not a single bug. But he has been drinking and hydrated. So I assumed he was just stressed from people grabbing him and touching him and stuff. But now I woke up this morning and he was on the very bottom of his cage, not holding on to any branches, just laying there. I genuinely thought he was dead until I poked him and he woke up. Right away I slid my hand under him to pick him up and he started hissing and puffing up at me, acting like his normal self. But he isn’t moving anywhere he’s just sitting on the branch I put him on looking around. I don’t really know what happened here as he seems very healthy. Both of the vets I went to even said he’s one of the most beautiful and healthiest chameleons they’ve ever seen and they congratulated me for doing a good job. So this is very sudden for me. Could it be possible he’s overdosing on calcium from the supplement?

The stressed colors he’s showing in the photos are from me touching him, when I first walked up to the cage he was normal coloration. (Also I know I’m supposed to fill out the form on my chameleon habits but I know I’ve been doing everything right. I follow the normal dusting schedule, I mist when I need to, he has a dripper for water, lighting and temperatures are perfect)

 

[Beman]

So if they did not do a fecal they would not know if it was parasites. If they did not run blood work or take an xray they would not know if it was an issue of calcium deficiency. So if all they did was look at him and tell you both of these were the diagnosis then they actually do not know. Even with parasites a fecal has to be done to ensure the correct medication is given for that specific parasite.

So if you could fill out the husbandry form in detail this is going to help us the most to be able to help you. Include pics of the entire cage lighting down as well. Just copy and paste the form below into your reply and fill it out.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
--------------
Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Etheoffo]

So if they did not do a fecal they would not know if it was parasites. If they did not run blood work or take an xray they would not know if it was an issue of calcium deficiency. So if all they did was look at him and tell you both of these were the diagnosis then they actually do not know. Even with parasites a fecal has to be done to ensure the correct medication is given for that specific parasite.

So if you could fill out the husbandry form in detail this is going to help us the most to be able to help you. Include pics of the entire cage lighting down as well. Just copy and paste the form below into your reply and fill it out.


Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
--------------
Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

• Your Chameleon - 8-9 month old male veiled chameleon, had him since October 2021
• Handling - I handle him whenever he wants to be handled
• Feeding - I feed him crickets and roaches daily, superworms daily sometimes, hornworms every once in a while. I feed him 5-10 crickets a day and then if he’s still hungry I’ll give him superworms. Most I just feed until he’s full. I feed him throughout the day, a little bit at a time. For crickets I use the orange cube and also strawberries and blueberries. I give the roaches strawberries and blueberries as well.
• Supplements - All calcium is phosphorus free. I use Zoo Med without D3 daily. With D3 every other Tuesday and Reptivite every other Thursday.
• Watering - He has a dripper and I hand mist about 2-3 times a day. I have seen him drink multiple times.
• Fecal Description - Fecal has been small since the vet visit. Looks like the normal color and the urates are white. Has not been tested for parasites.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I have the Zen Habitats 24x24x48. PVC paneling and it has a screen under the door for airflow.
• Lighting - I use Zoo Med lighting. 75W basking bulb and a 10.0 UVB linear light. Lights turn on at 8:00AM and turn off at 10:00PM. I read on here that it’s good to give them 14 hours during spring and summer and then it can be moved down to 12 during winter which is what I’ve done.
• Temperature - The bottom of his cage sits right at 70F and the top is closer to 85F-90F. His basking branch is 95F. During the night his cage gets down to 50F but nothing lower.
• Humidity - Humidity sits right between 30%-50%. Usually I never even see it drop below 40% but it happens a few times. It also never goes higher than 50%. I maintain this through misting and I have a dripper. I have two hygrometers in the cage.
• Plants - Currently there is one dragon tree and two pothos plants.
• Placement - The cage is right next to our window. He actually loves being by the sunlight and I make sure to put a blanket over his cage at night so the sunlight doesn’t wake him up too early. I have a fan that’s on 24/7 which creates an airflow in our house, but it’s not pointed at his cage. The highest point of the cage is about 6 feet. I’m barely taller than it.
• Location - Wisconsin, USA

 

[Beman]

See my feedback in bold.

• Your Chameleon - 8-9 month old male veiled chameleon, had him since October 2021
• Handling - I handle him whenever he wants to be handled
• Feeding - I feed him crickets and roaches daily, superworms daily sometimes, hornworms every once in a while. I feed him 5-10 crickets a day and then if he’s still hungry I’ll give him superworms. Most I just feed until he’s full. I feed him throughout the day, a little bit at a time. For crickets I use the orange cube and also strawberries and blueberries. I give the roaches strawberries and blueberries as well. Gutload should be expanded on. Either adding more fresh veg or switch to a commercial gutload like repashy bug burger. See image below.
• Supplements - All calcium is phosphorus free. I use Zoo Med without D3 daily. With D3 every other Tuesday and Reptivite every other Thursday. Is the reptivite with D3 or without D3 version? If it is the reptivite without D3 Version then your schedule is correct. If it is the reptivite with D3 version you need to stop giving the calcium with D3 and only use the reptivite with D3 two times a month say the 1st and the 15th then all other feedings would be the calcium without D3. They can overdose and have a D3 toxicity issue if you are over supplementing with D3.
• Watering - He has a dripper and I hand mist about 2-3 times a day. I have seen him drink multiple times.
• Fecal Description - Fecal has been small since the vet visit. Looks like the normal color and the urates are white. Has not been tested for parasites.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I have the Zen Habitats 24x24x48. PVC paneling and it has a screen under the door for airflow.
• Lighting - I use Zoo Med lighting. 75W basking bulb and a 10.0 UVB linear light. Lights turn on at 8:00AM and turn off at 10:00PM. I read on here that it’s good to give them 14 hours during spring and summer and then it can be moved down to 12 during winter which is what I’ve done. What is your distance from the bottom of the UVB fixture to the closest branch below the fixture? 10.0 bulbs are not recommended unless you can provide 11-12 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the closest branch below it. If closer than this he is in over exposure levels of UVB.
• Temperature - The bottom of his cage sits right at 70F and the top is closer to 85F-90F. His basking branch is 95F. During the night his cage gets down to 50F but nothing lower. This is far too hot. You would want a basking temp of 80-85 MAX. The rest of the upper level should be in the 70's. At 95 he is being cooked... This can make them weak and cause heat issues even leading to death.
• Humidity - Humidity sits right between 30%-50%. Usually I never even see it drop below 40% but it happens a few times. It also never goes higher than 50%. I maintain this through misting and I have a dripper. I have two hygrometers in the cage.
• Plants - Currently there is one dragon tree and two pothos plants.
• Placement - The cage is right next to our window. He actually loves being by the sunlight and I make sure to put a blanket over his cage at night so the sunlight doesn’t wake him up too early. I have a fan that’s on 24/7 which creates an airflow in our house, but it’s not pointed at his cage. The highest point of the cage is about 6 feet. I’m barely taller than it.
• Location - Wisconsin, USA

Ensure that UVB is the correct distance to put him in the correct exposure levels. Drop temps immediately by reducing the bulb wattage. Should not need more than a 60 watt regular incandescent. This may very well be what is causing his issues.

 

[Etheoffo]

See my feedback in bold.

• Your Chameleon - 8-9 month old male veiled chameleon, had him since October 2021
• Handling - I handle him whenever he wants to be handled
• Feeding - I feed him crickets and roaches daily, superworms daily sometimes, hornworms every once in a while. I feed him 5-10 crickets a day and then if he’s still hungry I’ll give him superworms. Most I just feed until he’s full. I feed him throughout the day, a little bit at a time. For crickets I use the orange cube and also strawberries and blueberries. I give the roaches strawberries and blueberries as well. Gutload should be expanded on. Either adding more fresh veg or switch to a commercial gutload like repashy bug burger. See image below.
• Supplements - All calcium is phosphorus free. I use Zoo Med without D3 daily. With D3 every other Tuesday and Reptivite every other Thursday. Is the reptivite with D3 or without D3 version? If it is the reptivite without D3 Version then your schedule is correct. If it is the reptivite with D3 version you need to stop giving the calcium with D3 and only use the reptivite with D3 two times a month say the 1st and the 15th then all other feedings would be the calcium without D3. They can overdose and have a D3 toxicity issue if you are over supplementing with D3.
• Watering - He has a dripper and I hand mist about 2-3 times a day. I have seen him drink multiple times.
• Fecal Description - Fecal has been small since the vet visit. Looks like the normal color and the urates are white. Has not been tested for parasites.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - I have the Zen Habitats 24x24x48. PVC paneling and it has a screen under the door for airflow.
• Lighting - I use Zoo Med lighting. 75W basking bulb and a 10.0 UVB linear light. Lights turn on at 8:00AM and turn off at 10:00PM. I read on here that it’s good to give them 14 hours during spring and summer and then it can be moved down to 12 during winter which is what I’ve done. What is your distance from the bottom of the UVB fixture to the closest branch below the fixture? 10.0 bulbs are not recommended unless you can provide 11-12 inches between the bottom of the fixture and the closest branch below it. If closer than this he is in over exposure levels of UVB.
• Temperature - The bottom of his cage sits right at 70F and the top is closer to 85F-90F. His basking branch is 95F. During the night his cage gets down to 50F but nothing lower. This is far too hot. You would want a basking temp of 80-85 MAX. The rest of the upper level should be in the 70's. At 95 he is being cooked... This can make them weak and cause heat issues even leading to death.
• Humidity - Humidity sits right between 30%-50%. Usually I never even see it drop below 40% but it happens a few times. It also never goes higher than 50%. I maintain this through misting and I have a dripper. I have two hygrometers in the cage.
• Plants - Currently there is one dragon tree and two pothos plants.
• Placement - The cage is right next to our window. He actually loves being by the sunlight and I make sure to put a blanket over his cage at night so the sunlight doesn’t wake him up too early. I have a fan that’s on 24/7 which creates an airflow in our house, but it’s not pointed at his cage. The highest point of the cage is about 6 feet. I’m barely taller than it.
• Location - Wisconsin, USA

Ensure that UVB is the correct distance to put him in the correct exposure levels. Drop temps immediately by reducing the bulb wattage. Should not need more than a 60 watt regular incandescent. This may very well be what is causing his issues.

I will go through and make some changes today and see if that helps. Thank you very much

 

[Beman]

I will go through and make some changes today and see if that helps. Thank you very much

ok and double check which reptivite you have as well.

But see with reduced temps and correct UVB exposure if he does not start bouncing back. I would make sure the dripper is going during the day in case he is really dehydrated. His eyes are pretty sunk in but that may just be from you touching him.

 

[Etheoffo]

ok and double check which reptivite you have as well.

But see with reduced temps and correct UVB exposure if he does not start bouncing back. I would make sure the dripper is going during the day in case he is really dehydrated. His eyes are pretty sunk in but that may just be from you touching him.

I do use Reptivite without D3. I went out a got some new bulbs, basking temp is now right at 85F exactly. I picked him up out of his cage and usually if I even try to touch him without him coming to me he freaks out. He couldn’t careless, I moved him up near the bulb and it seems he’s coming back now, he started puffing up and striking at a branch and now he won’t even let me near him so it seems he’s back to normal. I really appreciate your help, thank you so much.

 

[Beman]

I do use Reptivite without D3. I went out a got some new bulbs, basking temp is now right at 85F exactly. I picked him up out of his cage and usually if I even try to touch him without him coming to me he freaks out. He couldn’t careless, I moved him up near the bulb and it seems he’s coming back now, he started puffing up and striking at a branch and now he won’t even let me near him so it seems he’s back to normal. I really appreciate your help, thank you so much.

Ok so now just monitor him and see if the changes help the behavior. I did not see anything else that stood in your husbandry but what the vet said I really doubt as the cause. Unfortunately Vets that do not have real training or knowledge of chameleons miss the mark when it comes to treatment. A lot of times it is husbandry related and a few changes sort out the issue.