To be honest, I'm not sure. The blue bar adult was purchased from him as an adult. I didn't raise him. He was a hold back that was about 14 months old. Same as the Faly/Nosy cross. He was around 8 months when I got him. I think his sire was Blue Dream. The baby I have is from Kandiroo. I am fortunate enough to be local to Bruce, so I have had the privilege of actually seeing what he has and picking them. So I have not ordered them from a particular clutch like I would have to do if I had to have them shipped to me. And just so you all know, he has to be one of the most dedicated guys out there. Really committed his life to not only breeding, but caring for his animals. He is very passionate about what he does. I'm sure there are several quality breeders out there, but I have met him and seen his operation personally. And there may be other operations out there equal to Bruce's, but I promise you, there is no one out there doing it better. I'm about to pick up my 4th panther from him.