Chameleon importing question?

[Cainschams]

I was wondering where/who or if there is anywhere to contact about certain species being imported into the U.S. Some of you may already know that I shortly worked with Kinyongia tavetana and would like to proceed working with them and a few other rarer species that have caught my eye. One thing I dont want is the same thing to happen that did. I would like to be able to find better healthier specimen than what I had. Short of going to a show and picking out lllreptiles best specimen, if they even have them at the time, I dont know how to go about it. Ive tried firstchoicereptiles also but I havent gotten a reply back the 20 times I tried to contact them. I know the owner is very busy and probably has more important customers than me and by all means this is no bash on him. Any suggestions?

As soon as all my baby panthers are gone I will be wanting to start working with these less common species. If the right oportunity comes before hand I will jump on it also. I like working with panthers and will still continue but not on a larger scale than I already am. I love my panthers, have a few good breeders and ladies to raise up to produce babies but I dont want anymore
Besides the cool looks and curiousness to these rarer species I think I will get more fullfillment out of them, help benifit the community by working with lesser known species and of course, I LOVE A CHALLENGE and know I can be successful. Sorry for the little rant

Any insight on how to go about this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Cainschams]

Anyone got any ideas

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Have you talked to Mike Monge?
He may be able to at least start looking for you when shipments come in.

-Brad

 

[Cainschams]

Ive emailed a few people. I was going to shoot him one also. Thanks Brad!

 

[Kent67]

I was just thinking about adding Brad's recommendation after seeing this thread last night. I'd say Mike or Nick are your best options for getting some that have been cherry picked fresh from Tanz. Although, that one online shop with a store in Oceanside, CA gets them occasionally. If and when they did, I could possibly go take a look at them for you also.

 

[Chris Anderson]

It would help if you told us which species you were after. Certain species can only go to Nick because they can only legally be shipped out of Tanzania as F1 by Joe Beraducci and Nick is the only one he sends those animals to in the US currently. Depending on what other species you might be looking for, we might be able to point you in the direction of people who get good animals.

Chris

 

[Brad Ramsey]

It would help if you told us which species you were after. Certain species can only go to Nick because they can only legally be shipped out of Tanzania as F1 by Joe Beraducci and Nick is the only one he sends those animals to in the US currently. Depending on what other species you might be looking for, we might be able to point you in the direction of people who get good animals.

Chris

Chris,

Does this help? :

https://www.chameleonforums.com/update-kinyongia-tavetana-eggs-18192/

-Brad

 

[Cainschams]

Kent, Nick Mole is the hardest person to get a hold of ever. I would probably have a better chance getting a hold of the president I realize he is a busy man though. Im going to shoot Mike an email today and I also have Justin Carl that runs into Nick at the shows who is going to give him my number if he runs into him this month at the Orlando show.

Kent, If you do spot some decent specimen at "that store" let me know. I would make it worth your time

Chris, thanks for the reply. I am primarily looking for tavetanas but am also interested in working with a few of the other species from Tanzania and a few from Cameroon like: oxyrhinum, tenue, uthmoelleri, cristatus, montium, and quad gracillior. Of course I dont want to start with all of them at once. The main thing is that I get at least decent specimen if not high quality WCs.

Also. Where do you guys get your CITES information on what is allowed to be imported. I was looking at the pfefferi but couldnt find anything about them. Is there a website with CITES info and updated species names? I searched some last night and found a site but it didnt have much info only on some species.

Thanks guys!!

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris, thanks for the reply. I am primarily looking for tavetanas but am also interested in working with a few of the other species from Tanzania and a few from Cameroon like: oxyrhinum, tenue,

Kinyongia oxyrhina and K. tenuis are two of the species that can only be exported as F1 specimens so you will only be able to get them from Nick Mole. The K. tavetana can come in to anyone who imports from Tanzania but the issue is quality. My advice would be to try an get some from one of Nick's shipments from Joe. Sometimes Joe will send F1s of other species and they would obviously be very nice but in general, Joe's WC are a lot nicer then typical WC imports. On the other hand, you can also get in touch with Mike because he can probably keep an eye out for you and try to cherry pick a few nice specimens from an imported group and you could get the pick of that group.

Chris

 

[BocaJan]

I have heard the term F1's on several occassions, both here and other places. Can you please fill me in on what it means?

 

[Cainschams]

Thanks Chris. I figured those would be my best bets also. However, I hit submit before I was done typing You must have posted while I was finishing. Any other thoughts on the final draft

Thanks again.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I have heard the term F1's on several occassions, both here and other places. Can you please fill me in on what it means?

F1 means first generation born in captivity.
F2 = second generation, and so on.

So if you got a pair of wild caught animals and bred them successfully, their offspring would be F1.

-Brad

 

[BocaJan]

Thanks...good information

 

[Kent67]

And as far as Cameroon goes, I believe the only species with a quota is Ch. (T.) montium. I've heard the problem there, as with much of Africa, is that the exporters are much less than trust worthy. It also seems Cameroon more often than not gets imported through Los Angeles so it's unlikely Nick or Mike will get cherry picks. It's been a long time since I've seen any Pfeffer's chameleons come in and was actually thinking about them the other day. Great little chams, they are.

You can view a country-by-country list of quotas on CITES' website: http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/quotas/index.shtml

Oh yeah, I'll keep an eye out for cool stuff on "that store's" website too

 

[Chris Anderson]

Yeah, I must have posted while you were editing. Anyway, Kinyongia uthmoelleri is in the same boat as K. oxyrhina and K. tenuis so you'll have to contact Nick about them.

As for Ch. (T.) cristatus, Ch. (T.) montium, Ch. (T.) quadricornis gracilior and Ch. (T.) pfefferi, as Kent said, these are a little more complicated. Kent is correct, the exporters there tend to be less reliable as far as quality, consistency and reliability go. The only species that has a quota from Cameroon is Ch. (T.) montium. Equatorial Guinea, however, does export Ch. (T.) montium, Ch. (T.) quadricornis, Ch. (T.) cristatus, Ch. (T.) wiedersheimi and Rh. spectrum (Ch. (T.) pfefferi does not live in Equatorial Guinea). That does not mean that the exporters there are any more reliable, consistent or higher quality and this is why not many importers bring things in from them. These animals have come into LA over the last six months but not into Florida. I've had good luck with Andy at Eco Regional in LA in the past and I've been fortunate to have friends cherry pick animals from the recent shipments. There is the possibility of them coming into Florida, its just a matter of an importer here deciding to deal with the exporters in that part of Africa.

As for where we get the info on species exports, you can look up the quotas on the CITES website for each year. While this does not always give the entire picture for all countries, it helps. A lot of it is simply staying up to date with how things change over time. Many countries regulate in-house rather then with CITES and then its just a matter of keeping track.

Chris

 

[Cainschams]

Thanks for your time Chris.

Kent, thank you too. Anything cool is good

My number is 304 771 6970. I was going to P.M. it to you but its already in a bunch of other posts so if someone felt like messing with me I guess it would have happened IF you do see anything of interest PM or feel free to call at anytime. Your offer is very much appreciated

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I heard a rumor (yesterday) that Eco Regional is out of business.
Andy may come back under a different name, but word is Eco Regional is no more.

-Brad

 

[eisentrauti]

Hi,

aren't some of the species you search often available at kingsnake ? What's the reason that you in the US could import Wiedersheimi, pfefferi etc. nearly without problems and for Germany it is impossible ?

Best regards
Benny

 

[Chris Anderson]

Benny,

The European Union has additional regulations about wildlife trade. Chamaeleo (Ch.) chamaeleon and Brookesia perarmata are listed as Annex A species and all other chameleon species except the Rhampholeon and Rieppeleon are listed as Annex B species (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...bTx3xByaZw_gVSpQQ&sig2=7aN0ZtHd84q04DZdcRhZLw). In addition to that, many of the chameleon species listed on Annex B are further suspended from introduction into the EU from wild sources (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...3JaVmcTM6w7O4GRig&sig2=sqm7qhB-8DsE-yLefyclQw). Included in this list of species from Annex B that are banned from being brought in to the EU as WC specimens are Ch. (T.) deremensis, Ch. (T.) eisentrauti, Ch. (T.) ellioti, Ch. (T.) feae, Ch. (T.) fuelleborni, Ch. (T.) montium, Ch. (T.) pfefferi, Ch. (T.) werneri, Ch. (T.) widersheimi and quite a number of other species.

Chris

 

[eisentrauti]

Hi,

but a few of them could be imported as F1 / FZ animals, right ? It's for example no problem to get deremensis here.

Best regards
Benny