Chameleon died for no reason

[wootsauce]

Chameleon Info: Male Jackson chameleon, in my care since birth about 4 months.

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? very little, I left him alone I gave him space but I checked on him three times a day.

Feeding - At first fruit flies, then pin heads, after he grew up a little more small crickets on a regular basis his cage always had crickets for him to eat.

Supplements - I did not give him any supplements because he was far too young for any. The amount of powder I was to give him was too hard to feed him and too much can kill him from what I heard

Watering - Automatic mister 4 times a day for 1 minute each time and I personally mist them again in the middle of the day and 2 hours before they go to sleep to make sure he drank water.

Fecal Description -Brown poop with some white and once in a while orangish.

History - He was always the biggest, always ate the most, always healthiest with big eyes and most active.

Cage Info: Mesh cage about 4 ft tall and 1 ft in width id say.

Lighting - I use 75 wat heating lights and uvb i turn them on from 10 am- 8:30 pm

Temperature - The temperature was enough so they could sit in a branch that i purposely put there just if they wanted bask in heat a little but branches reached out everywhere throughout the cage

Humidity - I'm not sure what the humidity level is. I'm not an expert at taking care of chameleons it was my first time taking care of baby chameleons.

Plants - No live plants all plants were bought from a reptile store and made sure that none of them would harm them should they try to eat a part of it.

Placement -The cage is in my moms room people pass by it all the time but the chameleons in there never seem bothered by it. they are all babies.

Location - Miami, FL.

Current Problem - Right as I got home to check on my baby chameleons I noticed one missing and I looked around and I couldn't find him and finally I saw him on the floor gasping for air and I picked him scared out of my mind because I thought he was dead but he was struggling to live so I took him and tried giving him water by dropping in water into his mouth everytime he opened it, but that wasn't the issue. He wasn't dehadryted because he always drinks water and prior to him dying (5 min before) his always were always puffy and healthy as usual not puffy in the infected way just round like they should be and he just kept gasping for air he was kind of paralyzed he struggled to move but I could tell he was in pain because he grabbed himself hard with his two back feet and really was struggling to live i tried everything I put him under a warm light and he just kept doing it until little by little he lost life and as he died he shot out his tounge and died. I just want to know why this would happen and please don't judge me because I had the chameleons together they're babies I couldn't buy separate cages for every single one of them and I was told it was fine and I don't trust other people taking care of them here because everyone that wanted to buy them had no experience with reptiles.

 

[camimom]

Jacksons have a bad habit of one day fine, next day dead syndrome when under 5 months old.

This could have been what happened.

Im sorry it did.

But can you tell me what the basking temperatue actually was?

How many babies were in the cage?

 

[wootsauce]

Three babies and I'm not entirely sure the temperature but I think it was 76-83.

2 Male, 1 female. The other male wasn't as big though he was actually the tiniest one but they never fought they've been together since birth.

 

[ReptiGeek]

Sorry, but I don't understand why you weren't using supplements? From my understanding, montane species require supplements as well, even when they are young.

Also, if one of the males was much smaller than the rest, he should have been separated. He was likely not getting sufficient food due to another dominate male in his presence.

 

[ReptiGeek]

Oh and also it says you have had them since birth. Does this mean you bred them? How did you obtain them from birth if not?

 

[wootsauce]

Because I was told by numerous amount of people at different reptile stores to not use it when they're young and I just really never had an idea of how to do it. It's easy to do it with other reptiles but I can't just sprinkle powder on the crickets they're small and by the time they eat them the powder might be gone already. and the small one is fine, he was born smaller than the rest and he always ate just as much as the big one. the food was always plentiful believe me I buy over 1000 crickets at a time when I go below 100 crickets. the little one always eats when I put crickets in the cage

I have another Jackson chameleon that I bought pregnant without knowing and a couple months later there was 3 black things in the cage and I noticed they were babies and I decided to take care of them.

(Two were unurished babies, they were stale ones like born dead so not much I could do about it)

 

[camimom]

to dust- place crickets in acup or bag, sprinkle powder in, shake it. then put bugs in cage.

the powder stays on for several hours, so even if not eaten right away, its still ok.

 

[wootsauce]

Thank you caminon I will use that in the future, but I guess it might just have been that weird dying thing you said. I mean he was literally always active and always drinking water and eating crickets. I hope he's doing good wherever he is now.

 

[carol5208]

You dust your feeders for your chameleons just like you do your other reptiles. You don't feed the supplement directly.

 

[ReptiGeek]

From Chameleon Forums Jackson's Chameleon caresheet:

Supplementation:
Calcium and other vitamins are very important to your chameleon's health. Feeder insects should be lightly dusted with powdered supplement before being fed to your chameleon. As a montane species (native to higher altitudes) Jackson's have decreased supplementation requirements compared to tropical species due to metabolism differences. Use calcium (without D3 or phosphorus) twice a week, a multivitamin once a month, and calcium with D3 once a month.


I don't think it was just a random death, I think a lot of it had to do with not having been supplemented for the first 4 months of its life.

 

[Carlton]

Because I was told by numerous amount of people at different reptile stores to not use it when they're young and I just really never had an idea of how to do it. It's easy to do it with other reptiles but I can't just sprinkle powder on the crickets they're small and by the time they eat them the powder might be gone already. and the small one is fine, he was born smaller than the rest and he always ate just as much as the big one. the food was always plentiful believe me I buy over 1000 crickets at a time when I go below 100 crickets. the little one always eats when I put crickets in the cage

I have another Jackson chameleon that I bought pregnant without knowing and a couple months later there was 3 black things in the cage and I noticed they were babies and I decided to take care of them.

(Two were unurished babies, they were stale ones like born dead so not much I could do about it)

Chams don't die "for no reason". There is always a reason. Baby jax are much harder to raise than most keepers think. Supplements are important especially as babies are growing fast. Also, they can aspirate large water droplets while drinking or being given fluids by force. Too much water for them to handle at once. Sorry you lost him.

BTW, most pet shops know nothing about the proper care of chams, and I think their poor information led you to lose your baby. I would not listen to anything they tell you without double checking it with this type of forum first.

 

[wootsauce]

Maybe you're right, but I just feel that in the way he died it wasn't because of that. You can tell when a chameleon is not supplemented well, he doesn't grow well, he's just weak. and some of you may think I can't take care of my pet but I'm just going to throw it out there that I've had my adult jackson for about a year now and never given her supplements and she's doing perfectly fine, but I will take your advice and begin to start giving her the needed supplements.

 

[carol5208]

I forgot to say I am sorry about you losing your chameleon. Jackson's keepers do not supplement their chameleons as much as the panthers and Veild species. You say you never have used calcium at all? Can you by chance post a picture of your chameleon??

 

[Carlton]

Maybe you're right, but I just feel that in the way he died it wasn't because of that. You can tell when a chameleon is not supplemented well, he doesn't grow well, he's just weak. and some of you may think I can't take care of my pet but I'm just going to throw it out there that I've had my adult jackson for about a year now and never given her supplements and she's doing perfectly fine, but I will take your advice and begin to start giving her the needed supplements.

If you are gutloading your feeders very carefully they don't need a lot of vitamin supplements, but do still need some calcium, as most insect feeders are calcium deficient and phosphorus rich. It's best to view dusts as "gap fillers", not the primary source of nutrients. No one said you can't take care of your chams...but that the information you were following wasn't really correct. Taking care of a healthy adult jackson's is different from raising a very tiny hatchling. A lot more can go wrong even for experienced keepers.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

I'm just going to throw it out there that I've had my adult jackson for about a year now and never given her supplements and she's doing perfectly fine, but I will take your advice and begin to start giving her the needed supplements.

This may be a factor in your recent loss. As a mothers health is important to the babies she gives birth to. Not having the calcium and vitamins might have also contributed to the low number of babies born.

You say you never have used calcium at all?

That's what I was thinking.

 

[kinyonga]

The feeders we usually use for all the chameleons have a poor ratio of calcium to phos which is why we dust with calcium....to make up for it. I can't see how it will be different for Jacksons.

 

[junglefries]

supplements

As someone who breeds jax, they need vitamins and such also. maybe just not as much. make sure crickets are gutloaded with proper diets. jax babies need plenty of outdoor sunlight and / or uvb. Jacksons don't necessarily show you they lacked a certain supplement until it is too late to help. others (ie veil or panther) will show signs early of what help they need. From my experience with jax, once you realize one needed something, it is already to late. And these guys will hang around in agony also, after showing signs of being sick. I had a male that took 7mo. to die from an infection. he was struggling everyday, but still determined, giving me hope. One morning, he was just dead on the cage floor.

 

[tkilgour]

Sorry for your loss.

 

[teejayteej]

Do you think he may have fallen. Mine scares me to death climbing on the top screen and hanging upside down. I am always afriad he is going to fall and get hurt.
Just a thought, I have a young Jackson and this was my first thoguht when you said he was on the floor gasping for air.
so sorry for your loss....