Chameleon cant keep his balance, help!

[rslusky]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Chameleon, male, 2.5 months old. I have had him for a month and a half.
Handling - I handle him when I clean the cage mostly, sometimes ill take him out for a few minutes just to say hi but hes always bright green when I do.
Feeding - I feed him up to 12 large crickets a day. I give him about 6 when I wake up in the morning and 6 a few hours later. I keep the crickets in a plastic container with holes in it next to the cage. they have the little orange cubes and pieces of fruit/potato.
Supplements - I use "Rep-Cal" calcium with vitamin D3 ultrafine powder.
Watering - I have my chameleon on a timed system using the reptifogger. It goes off every 2 hours for 30 minutes on the lowest setting.
Fecal Description - his poops are dark with some white in them. I work 10 hours a day though so those could have also been there for awhile. I have the lights on a timer as well so that they go off at sundown when I am not at home to turn them off. I dont know if he has ever been tested for parasites.
History - I got him from River City Exotics in San Antonio TX.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - I have a 20 galon glass cage for right now, I am building a larger screen tank I am just not done with it yet.
Lighting - I dont know the brands of the lights, but i have a UVB light and a heat lamp on top of the wire in the top of the cage. The lights automatically turn on at 8 am and off at 8pm.
Temperature - the basking spot is at 90 degrees in the day time (light is off at night). it ranges from about 82-90 during the day time inside the cage. Lowest overnight temp is 75. I have three thermometers, a digital one, a temperature gage / humidity monitor, and a stick on the side of the tank one.
Humidity - The humidity stays between 70 and 90 percent. The reptifogger is on a timer to go off on minimum strength for thirty minutes about every 2 hours.
Plants - fake plants and vines.
Placement - My cage is located in my dining room, I am the only one that lives here so I wouldnt really say its in a high traffic area. The top of the cage is probably three feet above the ground.
Location - I am in San Antonio TX

Current Problem - My Veiled Chameleon, Franklin, all of a sudden lost his ability to keep his balance today. He is 2.5 months old. His back legs seem to not be able to grip things properly. He even fell off of my hand earlier (but i caught him). I dont know if it means anything but he usually is a solid bright green color when he is sleeping and tonight he has little batches of tan on him. I love my little Franklin and am really worried about him.

 

[Jac1582]

Welcome to the forums. Ok glad your almost complete on the screen enclosure. I think he might be overdosed on D3 if your using the calcium with D3 at every feeding. He only needs D3 twice a month. Second his basking temp is too high at 90 for a Cham that young. If there's something else I'm sure another member will pick up on it if I missed

 

[Elizadolots]

I think the crickets are too large. That young a chameleon should be getting small crickets (like, really small).

As Jac said, you need plain calcium without D3 for daily use. D3 should be used 2 times a month.

Also, as Jac said, 90 is high for a basking spot particularly in such a small enclosure. You should drop that to no more than 81 until you get him into his big boy cage.

I think if you drop that temperature down and get him size appropriate food, you'll see him improve for you.

 

[rslusky]

Thank you for responding so quickly! I appreciate it. I started giving him the large crickets because he didn't seem to like the small ones too much, but I can totally switch back if that could be what's making him act all funny. When I ordered my reptifogger, the guy sent me "reptolife plus" multivitamin and mineral formula plus color enhancers and antiOxidants powder for the crickets, would that be better to use? I had no idea you were only supposed to use the D3 calcium supplement twice a month, the guy at the store I got him at told me to use it daily :-/ what does an overdose of D3 do? What is an ideal basking temperature for a baby? I didnt know that different ages required different temperatures.

 

[Elizadolots]

The standard rule of thumb for feeder size is they should be no bigger than the distance between their eyes. Now, to be honest, I've never been able to get my head around that description. Is he actually eating the big crickets? It's possible that your store's idea of "big" is more like "medium"....so, maybe they're okay. As long as you are seeing him eat them and he's able to get them in with just a few chomps, it's probably okay. It should not be like watching a snake eat a rat.

The guys at the stores are often very good at bearded dragons....but that knowledge doesn't translate over to chameleons very well. Don't feel bad, I brought my first chameleon home with the one jar of vitamin/calcium/D3 supplement that I knew (because I was told) I just had to use every day and happiness and health would happen.

D3 works against Vitamin A, so if you are over supplementing with D3 your chameleon is not getting enough Vitamin A (regardless of how much you might be giving) and Vitamin A is important for eye health (which, you can imagine, is a big deal for them).

Typically babies are kept a bit cooler, but like I said, that's largely because they are kept in smaller enclosures. If you had a baby in a full size (4 foot tall) cage, a basking temperature of 90 wouldn't be a concern because he could move down to get away from the heat. In a smaller cage the temperature range is constrained so you have to go lower to make sure he can cool down enough.

I don't know about the supplements you mentioned so I'm going to leave that for someone with experience in that.

 

[Meow Kitty]

basking temp is low 80s and overdose on d3 can make your chameleon sick, the supplement schedule is calcium every day then twice a month you should use a multi vitamin and calcium with d3 dont over dust your crickets they should not look like little ghostie crickets

 

[rslusky]

My crickets definitely looked like ghost white crickets :-/ wont be doing that anymore. Thank you so much for yall's input! I just cant believe that the guy at the store told me all the wrong things for him :-/ its a little frustrating. You think hes going to be okay if I changed the supplements, get him smaller crickets and change the basking temperature? Is a D3 overdose fixable? I don't want my little buddy to croak on me The store told me that a glass cage would be okay for the time being but failed to mention that it would be so hard to get the temperature right. Should I get a lower wattage bulb until i get the wire cage finished?

 

[Meow Kitty]

Also, how do I lower the temperature of the basking spot? Do I get a lower wattage bulb?

yes or move the lamp higher its your choice

 

[rslusky]

Is organ toxicity reversible?

 

[Meow Kitty]

idk organ toxicity might be worked out if you do proper supplementing i would avoid d3 for a month and only use calcium, from what i recall from reading most people that catch their overdose before their chameleon gets really sick end up living, and yes adjust the tempeture accordingly it might take a couple different watts or moving the lamp up and down

 

[Elizadolots]

As Meow Kitty said, you can raise the light to lower the temperature.

I would hydrate the H*** out of that chameleon for a few days. I'm not saying drown the thing, but double your normal hydration schedule. You want him drinking lots, that's what's going to help him flush any excesses from his system.

I sincerely doubt you've hit the level of organ toxicity, but flushing him out can only be a good thing.

 

[Jac1582]

Yeah like Eliza said he should be fine he's just gona need a flush and detox so to speak lots of water and plain calcium lightly dusted on his crickets and he should bounce back just fine.

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a photo please?

If it's showing signs of MBD you will first of all need to correct it and then keep it on a balanced regime of supplements and properly gutloaded food.

 

[rslusky]

Franklin passed away yesterday I took him to the vet, they took some x-rays and it turns out he actually was severely calcium deficient and had deteriorated to the point where he had literally absorbed all of the calcium from his own bones. He absorbed his entire pelvis! It was heartbreaking to look at the x-rays, there was so little calcium in his bones that almost none of them were showing up. I don't know how it happened since at first I thought I was overloading him on the calcium supplements. Anyone have any suggestions as to how to prevent something like this in the future?

 

[Meow Kitty]

dang im sorry he had extreme MBD sorry for your loss, sorry man what happened was you overloaded him calcium w/ d3 which is a d3 supplement that has very little calcium in which he got mbd where he started to slowly absorb his bones of calcium which in turn killed him. if you would have caught the mbd earlier where he would have lived, he would have lived a very babied life where you would have to help him a lot.
Dont be discouraged by this you learned your lesson about supplement and your not a bad owner as many beginners who have misinformed experience this.

 

[Elizadolots]

I'm so sorry! I do hope you are not discouraged and try another chameleon. Read up on the proper supplements here. Jannb has a wonderful blog post for new owners: https://www.chameleonforums.com/blo...-keepers-young-veiled-panther-chameleons.html

Where you are, you can probably get your chameleon out into the sun for a couple of hours every week (note how I said every week, not every day). If you can do that, you might be able to use almost no D3 as a supplement...just calcium daily, vitamins 2x/month. Nothing is better than natural sunshine for them. So, when you're ready to dive back in, plan around that idea: use the sun! It's right there!