Calling ladysilkworm and or other silkworm "experts"

[Whammo72]

My silkworm moth breeding project has been a success so far. I have been researching it quite a bit but have some questions. From my research I am finding that this diapause thing is not a clear cut as I had assumed. I went into it thinking that if the eggs turned dark they were fertile and would require a couple of months in the fridge for the diapause phase. I am now finding information saying that if they turn dark brown they are in diapause and should be refrigerated. If they turn dark gray/bluish they do not need to be refridgerated and will hatch without forced diapause.

Is this correct?

If so I have refrigerated some gray blue eggs. Will they now die or will they hatch when warmed up?

I am really wanting this project to work. I take almost as much pride in breeding my feeders as I do breeding my reptiles. Not to mention the money in food costs it saves!

 

[ladysilkworm]

My silkworm moth breeding project has been a success so far. I have been researching it quite a bit but have some questions. From my research I am finding that this diapause thing is not a clear cut as I had assumed. I went into it thinking that if the eggs turned dark they were fertile and would require a couple of months in the fridge for the diapause phase. I am now finding information saying that if they turn dark brown they are in diapause and should be refrigerated. If they turn dark gray/bluish they do not need to be refridgerated and will hatch without forced diapause.


Congrats on your successful breeding! And now is the waiting part

Diapause is not clear cut, because of diff lines in today's silkworms. Some eggs are dark purple, some brown when they go into diapause. Some eggs will go into diapaause and some not from the same moths that laid them IN THE SAME BROOD. It has to be with the amt of light their parental EGGs were exposed to and what their neurosis tell them to do. Some eggs will hibernate, and some won't, given the same batch also. So , if you raise them in spring vs fall there is going to be difference as well due to the length of daylight.

"If they turn dark gray/bluish they do not need to be refridgerated and will hatch without forced diapause. "

there is no forced diapause. There is just forced UNDIAPAUSE by acid wash.



"If so I have refrigerated some gray blue eggs. Will they now die or will they hatch when warmed up? "


There is ONE Thing NOT to do, is to refrigerate greyish/slate colored eggs. That means they have reached the point of hatching. Take them out before 5 days is up.. let them warm up slowly and expose them to light. THey probably will hatch... But if you leave them in 40C for two weeks, they will probably die.

It can get very complicated depending on what stage of embryonic development they are when you put them in 40C... witheggs that are being incubated, you can put them back in the fridge as well, but it depends on where they are, if passed certain stages they will die. This is why if you but eggs form CS or MF they say don't put them BACK in cold storage (if you didn't get them overnighted). But for a scientific person with a microscope, you can put the eggs back in the fridge days after they have been sent to you.. with some calculated risks.

I am really wanting this project to work. I take almost as much pride in breeding my feeders as I do breeding my reptiles. Not to mention the money in food costs it saves!

It's so complicated that it is hard to explain given many unknowns of the treatment you gave them, or non treatment at all. It's yes you can put them in cold, no you can't, all depending! Anyway...

Basically, to sum it up, and as suggested by Sue Kayton...

LEAVE THE EGGS FOR AT LEAST 2 WEEK- 4 WEEKS. SOME EGGS WILL HATCH. SOME WILL NOT. THE ONES THAT TURNED GREY IN TWO WEEKS WILL HATCH. THE ONES THAT TURNED BROWN OR PURPLE, HAVE GONE INTO DIAPAUSE. AFTER YOUR MONTH IS UP, PUT THEM IN COLD STORAGE for 2 months. .If you need to take out for some reason, put them back immediately. you don't need to give them air. Just a ziploc that is closed is fine >they don't breathe much when diapaused.

IF YOU SEE SOME EGGS THAT REMAINED CREAMY.. DON'T DISGARD YET. IF THEY DEVELOP A DOT, (HEAD PIGMENTATION) THEY WILL TURN DARKER AND THEN HATCH AS WELL...

Silkworms today have gotten very complicated.. alot of the ones sold commercially are new creations..

I hope what I said is clear. Just follow the bolded part.

 

[Whammo72]

Thanks Lady! I'm trying

 

[ladysilkworm]

Thanks Lady! I'm trying

my comments are mixed into your previous comments. Don't know if you read that..

but you can refrigerate eggs after you started incubating... but it's very calculated. You shouldn't leave grey eggs in the fridge for more than 5 days... the were about to hatch from what you are telling me here.

for eggs that have been laid, some will go to diapause, some will not. Some will be brown some will be purple, yet some remains creamy but still will hatchafter turning brown. Your best bet is to let it sit for 1 full month, let the appropriate process take place. Collect the hatched ones, and put the rest away. They are still good even if they didn't hatch. Don't let them throw you off that way.


However, I don't know what you have right now. Are they regular whites or zebras?? Zebras maybe a true bivoltine. I have not dealt with their eggs yet.. so I do not know for sure. IF They are a true bivoltine and that you have your silks in spring, they may hatch 100% after two weeks. If you had whites, they are mostly single generation and won't hatch at all. Like I said, it can be complicated.


The longer you store the eggs in the cold, the lesser hatchability rate .Eggs are considered fresh for one season, anything older than that, they do start dying= low hatch rate..which is why sometimes CS or MF run a sale. Probably because the eggs have been around too long and new shipment is coming in. I bought eggs on sale before and only HALF hatched.

eggs can get dessicated. So, no direct lamp or sun light, and needs moistened air.

at certain stages of incubation, eggs can be very sensitive to cold.. at other stages cold has no effect.

Anyway, good luck! I think you will be fine. It really isn't that hard