Cage Too Big?

[Phatturk]

Hi all, I was wondering what the possible side effects are if the cage is too big. Is this a big concern to people? My new cage will be about 3'x4'x4' (I will post pics later when its done) My veiled that I have now will be living in it but I was actually wondering about future generations.

 

[Tygerr]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'future generations'.

There are a few things to keep in mind with large enclosures:
- Will the chameleon receive adequate UVB exposure? You have to remember that the UVB flourescent tubes only penetrate to a maximum depth of about 18 inches, and are only practically useful at about 12 inches. An alternative is to use mercury vapor bulbs and other types, but they have usually cause excessive heat build up.
This is one of the main reasons why free-ranging chameleons is usually avoided: it becomes difficult to ensure they are getting enough UVB.

- Will the chameleon be able to find it's food? This shouldn't be a problem for adult chameleons, but one of the main reasons that large cages are not used for baby chameleons is that they may struggle to find/hunt their food in large enclosures. So if by 'future generations' you mean that you will put the chameleon's offspring into the cage, then rather get a smaller cage for babies/juveniles, and only move them into the large one when they're old enough.

- Is the cage planted well enough? In my opinion, if you don't plant the cage densely, then the all the additional space of a large enclosure is wasted since the chameleon probably won't use it. So make sure it is full of plants/foliage.

- Can you control the humidity in the cage? In a really large enclosure, it becomes even more difficult to maintain humidity in the cage. This can be dealt with by using lots of live plants, and the use of automated misting, humidifiers, etc.

- Cleaning. The bigger the cage, the more there is to clean. Make sure it doesn't become too laborious.

Having said all that, I don't think 3'x4'x4' is excessively large. As long as you can manage the husbandry on that scale, it will probably be a great enclosure for your Veiled. If you have the space for it, why not make the cage a bit higher, rather than wider? The chameleon would probably enjoy the extra climbing space (just remember to provide access for the cham within the range of the UVB bulbs).

 

[Phatturk]

Hey Thanks for the info. By future generations I did mean his possible offspring and also I was thinking about building another one the same size for a female and she might be a baby when I get her. I still have 2 of my enclosures for the babies so I guess I will use those for the babies. But this enclosure is shaping up really nice although I am excessive. It has a built in control system with webcam and webserver. I made my own D.I.Y rock background with places for my pathos and in the bottom i have a ficus tree about 2.5' tall and an umbrella bush about 3.5' tall and about the same wide. I also have hibiscus plants about 1.5' tall but growing. The whole cage is very well stocked with live plants and also has an ultrasonic humidifier hooked up to my control system.

As far as the UVB is concerned I am still a bit worried about it. I have 2 18" bulbs mounted vertically in the cage but not on the top and if thats not enough I don't know what else to do. I also don't know if that is ok to have the lights mounted that way but I have seen some pics where people had lights on the side of the cage and not on the top. I am sure it sounds pretty strange but the lights are concealed in a way that the whole cage isn't blinding light from the outside but it may be on the inside.

Also I wanted to make it taller but my apartment is too small right now it is almost 8' tall with the drainage and cabinets for my computer and buckets. I will post pics and the web site address to my system when I finish.

 

[davemailcall]

8 feet tall! Thats a monster of a cage. I'd guess too big for baby chams. Can't wait to see pics though.

This question is more directed at Tygrr, since he seems to know a ton about lighting. And it kinda fits the topic.

I know everyone puts UV at the top of the cage (as with me) but can a UV light be mounted lower in cage to provide more adequate coverage? Is it even necessary?

 

[Tygerr]

As far as the UVB is concerned I am still a bit worried about it. I have 2 18" bulbs mounted vertically in the cage but not on the top and if thats not enough I don't know what else to do. I also don't know if that is ok to have the lights mounted that way but I have seen some pics where people had lights on the side of the cage and not on the top. I am sure it sounds pretty strange but the lights are concealed in a way that the whole cage isn't blinding light from the outside but it may be on the inside.

That's what I would be worried about. My completely unscientific, unproven suspicion is that it might irritate the chameleon's eyes to have the lights mounted vertically, and right at their eye-line (watch your chameleons closely next time: they hardly ever look up, where the lights are, unless there is prey/activity above them. But they are always looking around them, where the vertical lights would be...)

In a 4ft high cage though, I wouldn't be that worried about UVB penetration. It doesn't have to penetrate all they way to the bottom of the cage. In fact, it shouldn't. There needs to be somewhere where the cham can choose to escape the UVB rays (it's all about gradients). Just make sure that there are secure perches within the usable range of the UV lights, and your cham should be able to self-regulate its exposure.

 

[Tygerr]

This question is more directed at Tygrr, since he seems to know a ton about lighting. And it kinda fits the topic.

I think I may have answered your question about vertical/low-mounted lighting in my last response.
But as I said, that's just a hunch I have.

The man who is a real expert on lighting is Dave Weldon - our resident member of the UV Meter Owners Forum. Perhaps he can add something to this discussion...

 

[Smitty]

8 feet tall! Thats a monster of a cage. I'd guess too big for baby chams. Can't wait to see pics though.

I'm pretty sure he meant the cage itself was only 4' tall, but with the stand and drainage and everything else under it, then the cage was taller, but the rest wasn't part of the cage.

 

[Brain916]

I had this problem too with my baby Nosy Be,

I was told it is harder for them to find food, which can lead to starvation. And with my own observations, with the the humidity and Basking its harder to regulate.