blood in his fecal *Lookin for advice*

[Sang]

OK, so i just got back home this morning, went to clean out his cage and to my horror i find this on his leaf.

Cage Info: screened mesh enclosure, 2x 2x 4' reptisun 5.0 , basking is a 60watt bulb, basking spot temp is 81, ambient tempe ranges from 74-78
Humidity - humidity spikes to 80% and lows of 50%, i keep a 4' ficus benjamina and a medium sized schefflera, 3 biovines, and several branches.his cage is located in my room, traffic is me, so very low. hight of cage is about 4' off the ground. *
chameleon is a panthers chameleon, sambava locale, male , 8 months he is handled maybe 2x a week for a extremly short interval just to inspect his overall healthy.
Feeding - superworms, crickets, he had some silkie moths that had hatched out not to long ago. gutload is freash vegitables. *schedule? he gets 4-10 minute mist sessions throughout the dayyou mist? i do see him drinking often *
Fecal Description - ever since i got him the silkies he has had a bit more runny urates, i thought nothing of it because of the higher liquid content of worms. now that he is back to feeding on super worms, this was his first /second solid fecal and now it appears to have blood in it..he has not been tested for anything, ill be making his first vet visit this week. and starting him on reptaid now.? * got him from northwest chameleons hmm about 5 months ago * Current Problem - blood in stool, bit worried about the possibilities of what could be the cause. i know the obvious answer is to take him to the vet, which i will be doing as soon as i make the appointment monday morning .

i am lookin for advice from the more knowledgable members of the forums on what their take is on the problem.

this is his first fecal that has looked this bad, all the previous have looked normal and healthy. *with the exception of being more running due to silkies/hornworms*

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy,

Save that poop sample for the vet. In the meantime, poke at the yellowish, stringy stuff at the lighter colored end. It almost looks like tiny worms but probably isn't . I know that some parasites can cause intestional bleeding but this may not be the case here.

 

[Sang]

thanks dave, ill go play with some poop.

i also just took his weight, he is still stayin around 118 grams at 8month, this has been a fairly steady weight for about a month and a half.

i am really hoping this isn't parasites. *or something worse then parasites*

 

[dodolah]

I also suspect parasite as well.
coccidia can cause this.
Save the poop for fecal check.
If your cham poop again, go with the fresher one.

 

[Chuck G]

Could be a few things but you have a fresh poo so put it in the fridge in a moist paper towel and get it to the vet pronto!

 

[kenya]

Since the blood is bright red, that indicates it was near "the end of the line" so to speak, when the blood was added. I would guess that this could be just a tearing of the vent while defecating which in turn could mean that Daruma is being overfed and having larger, bulkier poos than he should. How much have you been feeding him? If the blood were darker and tarry black in color, that would indicate it being from higher in the digestive system. That could mean internal bleeding, so it is good if not startling, that the blood is bright red. I would say a vet visit is in order. Save the poo in a sandwich baggie in the fridge- just cut that whole leaf off and take it in. You may be able to drop it off at the vet today or tomorrow (the sooner, the better) if you call in and let the vet know what is happening.

 

[Sang]

i just called all 6 vets in the area that are within 25 miles, all are closed sundays.

thanks kenya that releaves me a little. his feeding schedule is about every 3 days 5-6 supers and maybe a roach or two if i can get him to eat it.

ive seen him poop bigger then that when he was 3 months. the fecal was fairly small in comparison but far drier and harder then his typical poop.

i will be getting him to the vet asap, and i have that . i just inspected the entire cage/ and his toilet tree.. i couldn't find any other with blood on them.

his urate still has me concerned as it just doesn't look normal at all. so if the blood is from tissue tearing, it is probably very important that i get him in asap.

 

[kenya]

Okay, knowing all of that and looking at the photos again, it does look like the problem is coming from the urates as well as the feces. It will all be in the cloaca, though, so that could be it, too. A vet visit is totally in order (as you know) and I would try to get him in sooner rather than later. Take whatever he produces up until the visit with you, just so the vet can see the blood content and then test fresher poos for parasites.

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Sang]

A quick update. his mister came on, and he moved into the trees drank a bit, then began to pass another urate. but it was really odd, cause it was red.

he passed blood with his urate... no pooo

*additional note, he has really good foot/hand grip, but he seems clumsy while clmbing around his enclosure... almost like he isn't as sure footed as he used to be *...

 

[dodolah]

just get him to the vet on monday.
That does not looked good.
Please keep us updated.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

I just got off the phone with James (Sang). I don't even want to try to guess what may be going on. Hopefully just a temporarily irritated bowel. We'll all know more after he sees the vet tomorrow.

Can't think of anything he should do in the mean time, except maybe keep him a little warmer tonight during the night time hours. Per our vets advice, whenever we have an ailing cham, we use a night time (red) heat bulb over the cage to raise ambient temps up a bit during the cooler hours. Helps keep the immune system running at a more optimum level.

Also, at the vets I would recommend a blood draw for some lab work. If you've got the $$. At our vets the bloodwork costs about $98.

 

[Syn]

Hey James, just looking at it (not sure this means anything) but the blood seems to have made the urates have a "fleshy" look.

 

[Docility]

If you vet will accept a sample over 2 hours old *grumble*

The mealworm supplier for the store said he has been getting limited cases of not only his meal worms, but his superworms not being killed upon eating, and they are eating holes in the intestinal tract causing severe bleeding. just a though if you feed with those

also kenya i know that the blood color works for humans/dogs, but what about the chameleon? like ferrets they run food through their digestive tract so fast its just in/out. if he had a quick movement then it may be higher up like a upper gi, or something? thoughts?

 

[dodolah]

super worms eating chameleon from inside out is a famous urban legend.
It is not proven to be accurate.

 

[Sang]

thanks sandy for giving me a call, right now with the arizona temperatures, average temps at night is 72-75.. i have to mist the lower half of his cage to spike his humidity.

he looks like he is feeling good though... spite the bloody bowel movement i have never seen such yellows and oranges on him... kinda wish his PJ colors were his fire up colors.


i am pretty worried, i will try ever vet in the mesa/phoenix/tempe area if i have to in order to ensure i get a vet visit tommorow.


there is about 6 within a 20 mil radius and i calld all 6.. all 6 closed on sunday. arizona being such a reptile state id think we would have more herp vets.



im still in a somewhat freaked out state, and i really hope it is nothing more then a case of irritated bowel as sandy somewhat mentioned on the phone.

only thing different that i have done food wise was silk moths that i had change from silkies , lobster roaches which i got from AZ rep cause i thought he might like how they looked.


i will let everyone know whats going on tommorow when i can.

 

[Docility]

super worms eating chameleon from inside out is a famous urban legend.
It is not proven to be accurate.

if they dont chew their food its possible. we were advised at work by the supplier to watch out for it, and make sure we tell people the right sizes to feed their pets to avoid this. he had a very angry buyer call him about it, and they had an autopsy done found "chew" spots on the inside of the intestinal track. nothing like omg a hole he going to escape, but enough to cause complication, and maybe even death. i didnt believe it either till our owner showed me the pictures of the autopsy. i just know i make sure he chews his food. ill found out the supplier name next tuesday, and let you know the breeder name

 

[Sang]

my guy chews his food, will bite, chomp chomp chomp.....stop.. pull more in chomp chomp chomp...

 

[Docility]

my guy chews his food, will bite, chomp chomp chomp.....stop.. pull more in chomp chomp chomp...

the bearded dragons at work dont even chew they just inhale them. so i dont even risk it.

 

[leid]

The mealworm supplier for the store said he has been getting limited cases of not only his meal worms, but his superworms not being killed upon eating, and they are eating holes in the intestinal tract causing severe bleeding. just a though if you feed with those

I'm not sure about mealworms, but I know that for older chameleons (closer to a year) there is no problem with chewing their food appropriately. I doubt it's undigested superworms being the problem. The blood in his feces means intestinal irritation, and could not be gastric related, as the blood would not be so red upon exit. This is more than likely parasitic in nature, unless your chameleon has ulcerative colitis.

 

[Docility]

I'm not sure about mealworms, but I know that for older chameleons (closer to a year) there is no problem with chewing their food appropriately. I doubt it's undigested superworms being the problem. The blood in his feces means intestinal irritation, and could not be gastric related, as the blood would not be so red upon exit. This is more than likely parasitic in nature, unless your chameleon has ulcerative colitis.

the cases are so rare its hard to study, and if your reptile chews it "should" kill it. i have fed Ocillie supers before, and he loves them =)