handyman1502
New Member
has any 1 tired feeding their roaches flukers orange cube for crickets as food.
blaptica dubia
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Vegas Chad
Avid Member
yes... Im sure somebody somewhere has at some time.
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Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
Diets with a high percentage of calcium are good for gut-loading (the day before feeding) as that transfers nutrients and other essential elements to the animal being fed pretty quickly ....in other words the insect becomes a vessel in addition to the meat etc it is already made up of.
For long term maintainance, however, too much calcium in particular can have an adverse effect on insects. Crippling and eventually killing them.
There are several cricket and roach diets that are commercially designed for maintaining these animals and then there are gut-loads which will have a lot of ingredients that are meant to be carried to the chameleon and not really good for the insect.
Calcium is in a lot of things we feed insects, and in small amounts it seems to be okay. Just try to avoid calcium enriched insect foods or water gels or anything that lists a high percentage of Calcium Carbonate in the ingredients.
-Brad
For long term maintainance, however, too much calcium in particular can have an adverse effect on insects. Crippling and eventually killing them.
There are several cricket and roach diets that are commercially designed for maintaining these animals and then there are gut-loads which will have a lot of ingredients that are meant to be carried to the chameleon and not really good for the insect.
Calcium is in a lot of things we feed insects, and in small amounts it seems to be okay. Just try to avoid calcium enriched insect foods or water gels or anything that lists a high percentage of Calcium Carbonate in the ingredients.
-Brad
Orin
New Member
I've dusted crickets with calcium vitamin supplements for feeding mantids for years and have only had improved adult size with the same stock versus a control group. Never a death. I've never heard of calcium hurting insects but I imagine reactive forms like powdered calcium hydroxide could cause issues if they were somehow forced to eat in quantity.
However, why not just use dog food? The feeder cubes are expensive and would make a poor diet for most any roach species.
However, why not just use dog food? The feeder cubes are expensive and would make a poor diet for most any roach species.
Brad Ramsey
Retired Moderator
Dogfood can work as part of a maintainance diet.
However, the gut of the insects would have to be cleaned for
a couple of days then gut-loaded before feeding off. There would be a
possibility of the chameleon getting too much preformed vitamin A.
In controlled testing of beneficial gutload formulas it was determined that
formulas with a high percentage of calcium could not be fed to crickets and cockroaches for more than 5 days without a high fatality rate.
This testing of gutload formulas was done by Michigan State University Department of Zoology and The National Zoological Park at The Smithsonian Institution.
I have never heard of dusting feeders for mantids, but I cannot see how calcium is beneficial to an arthropod.
I do know there are people on the arachnoboards who warn against feeding calcium in any way to tarantulas.
-Brad
However, the gut of the insects would have to be cleaned for
a couple of days then gut-loaded before feeding off. There would be a
possibility of the chameleon getting too much preformed vitamin A.
In controlled testing of beneficial gutload formulas it was determined that
formulas with a high percentage of calcium could not be fed to crickets and cockroaches for more than 5 days without a high fatality rate.
This testing of gutload formulas was done by Michigan State University Department of Zoology and The National Zoological Park at The Smithsonian Institution.
I have never heard of dusting feeders for mantids, but I cannot see how calcium is beneficial to an arthropod.
I do know there are people on the arachnoboards who warn against feeding calcium in any way to tarantulas.
-Brad
Orin
New Member
Although the arthropod skeleton contains a nitrogen complex (Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Hydrogen- chitin) the matrix is calcium which can compose most of the mass depending on the arthropod. Otherwise, insectivores like chameleons would have had to adapt to low calcium diets. If insects don't have calcium where do wild chameleons get calcium? I used calcium vitamin blends and had great success with a control group of Lasiodora parahybana (Brazilian Salmon birdeater tarantula) started from hatchout. Nauphoeta cinerea were dusted prior to every feeding and none of the tarantulas died in the experimental (or control) groups.
Do you have a link to the details of the cricket experiment, there has to be something more to it. I use a cultivar of the normal house cricket that doesn't die easily and produces at room temperature unlike the pet shop ones that die from almost anything.
Do you have a link to the details of the cricket experiment, there has to be something more to it. I use a cultivar of the normal house cricket that doesn't die easily and produces at room temperature unlike the pet shop ones that die from almost anything.
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
From what I read, a while ago, it was a physical/mechanical problem rather than a chemical one. I know this is why crickets tend to die if fed a lot of repcal. The calcium powder binds up in their digestive system, making their gut contents set up like concrete.
Chameleons get much o ftheir calcium from the gut contents of their prey. Many chameleons eat a ton of grasshoppers, which feed primarily on high-calcium grasses.
Gutloading can present a problem: In th ewild, chameleons have to eat substantially more to maintain weight. Parasites, and insects with significantly lower nutrient-density means a larger volume of insect gut content is ingested per day than in captivity.
We feed our chameleons insects that are far more nutritious than they'd get in the wild normally - ground dwelling crickets, beetle larva, moth larva, roaches, etc. In th ewild, much of their diet is high in chitin, and much lower in fat - adult betles and flying insects, flies, etc.
They get a lot more fat and calories out of an equal mass of insects in captivity than in the wild.
So, in captivity, we've got fat lizards that are getting less gut content in their meals. It is a major reason for nutritional imbalances in captivity, I believe.
This is purely hypothetical:
Think about how much grass is consumed by the average grasshopper. It's substantial. Then factor in the high chitin content, and relativly low meat/fat content(compared to a grub), of your average adult grasshopper. The chameleon might have to eat 2 large grasshoppers to equal the calories of one big superworm, yet the gut content in those two grasshoppers is probably many times more than that of the superworm. On top of that, it's low-calorie grass that has a lot of calcium and D3 in it.
think of the long-term effects of this.
It's why I feed my insects mostly greens!
also, I'd avoid feeding dog/cat/fish food to crickets, unless you're growing them up. Don't use it as a gutload though. Chameleons can get gout if they consume too much animal protein. Meat is easy for them to digest, but their body doesnt' deal with it very well over time. Nearly every instance of gout I've seen in chameleons has been a result of people feeding their crickets doog food or fish flakes as a gutload.
Chameleons get much o ftheir calcium from the gut contents of their prey. Many chameleons eat a ton of grasshoppers, which feed primarily on high-calcium grasses.
Gutloading can present a problem: In th ewild, chameleons have to eat substantially more to maintain weight. Parasites, and insects with significantly lower nutrient-density means a larger volume of insect gut content is ingested per day than in captivity.
We feed our chameleons insects that are far more nutritious than they'd get in the wild normally - ground dwelling crickets, beetle larva, moth larva, roaches, etc. In th ewild, much of their diet is high in chitin, and much lower in fat - adult betles and flying insects, flies, etc.
They get a lot more fat and calories out of an equal mass of insects in captivity than in the wild.
So, in captivity, we've got fat lizards that are getting less gut content in their meals. It is a major reason for nutritional imbalances in captivity, I believe.
This is purely hypothetical:
Think about how much grass is consumed by the average grasshopper. It's substantial. Then factor in the high chitin content, and relativly low meat/fat content(compared to a grub), of your average adult grasshopper. The chameleon might have to eat 2 large grasshoppers to equal the calories of one big superworm, yet the gut content in those two grasshoppers is probably many times more than that of the superworm. On top of that, it's low-calorie grass that has a lot of calcium and D3 in it.
think of the long-term effects of this.
It's why I feed my insects mostly greens!
also, I'd avoid feeding dog/cat/fish food to crickets, unless you're growing them up. Don't use it as a gutload though. Chameleons can get gout if they consume too much animal protein. Meat is easy for them to digest, but their body doesnt' deal with it very well over time. Nearly every instance of gout I've seen in chameleons has been a result of people feeding their crickets doog food or fish flakes as a gutload.
handyman1502
New Member
flukers orange cubes
this product is made for crickets, gives them all the vitamins their need plus supplies the water their need. here are the incredients of flukers orange cubes for crickets. water-carrageenan-soya protein-maltddextrin-fructose-dried brewers yeast- potassium sorbate-dried kelp-calicum carbonate-spirulina-ascorbic acid-calcium proplonate-sodium benzate-citric acid and yellow food color. its recommended for a complete diet for crickets. so should be good for roaches i would think? my crickets thrive on it
this product is made for crickets, gives them all the vitamins their need plus supplies the water their need. here are the incredients of flukers orange cubes for crickets. water-carrageenan-soya protein-maltddextrin-fructose-dried brewers yeast- potassium sorbate-dried kelp-calicum carbonate-spirulina-ascorbic acid-calcium proplonate-sodium benzate-citric acid and yellow food color. its recommended for a complete diet for crickets. so should be good for roaches i would think? my crickets thrive on it
Orin
New Member
What are the symptoms of gout in chameleons? The base for most dog and cat food is corn.
Grasshoppers don't live in trees.
What are the symptoms of vitamin A poisoning?
I checked and the dog foods contain 10,000iuk vitamin A while the cat foods don't have any added.
The only problem I've come across is egg shells not breaking but I think that is because I mist the eggs every day before they hatch or some other improper aspect of egg care. I've reared only pardalis and calyptratus from hatchling.
The cubes are probably fine for short term but may not be useful in breeding crickets. I've tried some premade food cubes for roaches and the results were surprisingly terrible.
Grasshoppers don't live in trees.
What are the symptoms of vitamin A poisoning?
I checked and the dog foods contain 10,000iuk vitamin A while the cat foods don't have any added.
The only problem I've come across is egg shells not breaking but I think that is because I mist the eggs every day before they hatch or some other improper aspect of egg care. I've reared only pardalis and calyptratus from hatchling.
The cubes are probably fine for short term but may not be useful in breeding crickets. I've tried some premade food cubes for roaches and the results were surprisingly terrible.
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Dave Weldon
Avid Member
Howdy,
Chameleons and Gout article:
http://www.mythicalchameleons.com/vetcases.htm#gout
Here's a good article on Vitamin A and chameleons. Don't let the website scare you. The file is about 30MB to open or download. It's really good reading!
Heika put the link to the 30MB file in her post:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/chameleons-vitamin-article-2911/
dragonbreeder
New Member
I know of people who feed their crickets and dubias ground dry dog food supplemented with mixed greens and have produced generations and generations of healthy reptiles using these feeders. The fact that this has worked for them for so many years and that their reptiles are producing such high-quality offspring says a lot.
SierraNevada
New Member
Here is a link from Kammer's for their gut load recipe: http://chameleonsonly.com/new_page_5.htm
Some of the ingredients seem impossible to get...but they provide links.
Some of the ingredients seem impossible to get...but they provide links.
