Be ware fellow breeders! Keep all your receipts the IRS is after us!

Matt Vanilla Gorilla

Matt Vanilla Gorilla

Chameleon Enthusiast
So, apparently the IRS finds it hard to believe that Chameleon breeding is a buisines! They think it is merely a hobby! Hours and hours of work to get ready for the audit! Lots of time and money wasted! Too bad! Still the main goal is to proove that our little home buisiness is exactly that, a chameleon breeding buisiness. Too bad they can not come on to the forums here and see what we as a team of chameleon lovers do! To my fellow breeders out there: "hold on to every receipt! And do your books as if you own and operate a farm!" And "BEWARE OF THE IRS!" LOL
 
Most people that I've talk to over the years just consider it a hobby. I have worked for H&R Block for 30+ years and even told clients it's just a hobby.
 
jannb said:
Most people that I've talk to over the years just consider it a hobby. I have worked for H&R Block for 30+ years and even told clients it's just a hobby.
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How sad! Me, no, no hobby here! It is all serious buisiness and I am constantly working at ways to do my job better and not cut corners! Every single chameleon is loved, apreciated and treated like royalty while we raise him/her for their forever home! I hope to let the chameleons be my life as I slowly cut back from my regular job to spent more time with these tree angels!
 
Matt Vanilla Gorilla said:
So, apparently the IRS finds it hard to believe that Chameleon breeding is a buisines! They think it is merely a hobby! Hours and hours of work to get ready for the audit! Lots of time and money wasted! Too bad! Still the main goal is to proove that our little home buisiness is exactly that, a chameleon breeding buisiness. Too bad they can not come on to the forums here and see what we as a team of chameleon lovers do! To my fellow breeders out there: "hold on to every receipt! And do your books as if you own and operate a farm!" And "BEWARE OF THE IRS!" LOL
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Grrr:mad:
 
Matt Vanilla Gorilla said:
How sad! Me, no, no hobby here! It is all serious buisiness and I am constantly working at ways to do my job better and not cut corners! Every single chameleon is loved, apreciated and treated like royalty while we raise him/her for their forever home! I hope to let the chameleons be my life as I slowly cut back from my regular job to spent more time with these tree angels!
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Isn't that true :love: . One of the reasons I will only ever get my panthers from you . Your not just a breeder . Your far far from just a breeder .
 
Matt Vanilla Gorilla said:
How sad! Me, no, no hobby here! It is all serious buisiness and I am constantly working at ways to do my job better and not cut corners! Every single chameleon is loved, apreciated and treated like royalty while we raise him/her for their forever home! I hope to let the chameleons be my life as I slowly cut back from my regular job to spent more time with these tree angels!
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I'm sure you love your guys and from what you just said it sounds more like a hobby than a business. I think the big warehouse breeders have a business and not nearly the feeling for the animals. When my daughter breed Panthers on a regular basis she just uses a room in her house along with the screen porch and the yard but in my humble opinion and knowing how the IRS works from the many audits I've been to over the years, it was a hobby that she enjoyed doing.
 
jannb said:
I'm sure you love your guys and from what you just said it sounds more like a hobby than a business. I think the big warehouse breeders have a business and not nearly the feeling for the animals. When my daughter breed Panthers on a regular basis she just uses a room in her house along with the screen porch and the yard but in my humble opinion and knowing how the IRS works from the many audits I've been to over the years, it was a hobby that she enjoyed doing.
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Not everyone has the same ambition, drive and passion! I have walked on water before, realy! Mine is a buisines not a hobby!
 
jannb said:
I'm sure you love your guys and from what you just said it sounds more like a hobby than a business. I think the big warehouse breeders have a business and not nearly the feeling for the animals. When my daughter breed Panthers on a regular basis she just uses a room in her house along with the screen porch and the yard but in my humble opinion and knowing how the IRS works from the many audits I've been to over the years, it was a hobby that she enjoyed doing.
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I guarantee that our chameleon breeding business is not a hobby! I think that it is perfectly acceptable to love, enjoy and have passion for your work! There are many chameleon breeders out there who have Big Name and love and care for their animals in much the same way that we do here at Nuts Over Chameleons. We are so fortunate to have careers that we love, enjoy and are passionate about! I also love being a Nurse! I love taking care of people and educating them about their health. Does this mean that because I enjoy it, that nursing too is just a hobby? I promise when you are really sick, you want someone like my husband or I to take care of you!

Why does work have to be considered something that we dread and/or dislike doing? We are very serious about taking our business to the next level! Will we ever mass produce chameleons and lose track of our goal to provide well bred, healthy and manageable pets to our customers? Will we ever wholesale chameleons to Big Name pet stores to be sold by individuals who lack the knowledge and know how for taking care of these creatures? Will we ever sell a chameleon without harboring a sense of responsibility for what we sell, who we are selling to, and making sure that they are well equiped in the knowledge department for caring for their new pet?Absolutely Not!!! Does that mean we will never be a true business? If in order to be a business, we have to break down our unique mission to provide healthy, well bred friendly pets, we have to stop caring for our animals, we have to stop having the passion that drives us to be successful, then yes, you are right @jannb we will NEVER BE A BUSINESS!!!
 
And so it goes! These are just some of the reasons small businesses struggle! If you were to take all the small businesses out of communities the entire community struggle! Monopolizing happens and a beautiful community protective balance is desturbed! Shame on the people who allow that to happen! What kind of person would I be if I were to say: "O, no, this is too much of a struggle! The IRS is correct, why are we doing this, all this hard work for nothing! I quit!" Not me! Not my family! We are kind, gentle and sweet! But we are strong and persistant! We have what it takes to breed and produce some of the world's most amazing chameleons (with character, health and beauty as our focus)!!!

My deepest appreciation to all who support us in this goal!
 
Matt Vanilla Gorilla said:
And so it goes! These are just some of the reasons small businesses struggle! If you were to take all the small businesses out of communities the entire community struggle! Monopolizing happens and a beautiful community protective balance is desturbed! Shame on the people who allow that to happen! What kind of person would I be if I were to say: "O, no, this is too much of a struggle! The IRS is correct, why are we doing this, all this hard work for nothing! I quit!" Not me! Not my family! We are kind, gentle and sweet! But we are strong and persistant! We have what it takes to breed and produce some of the world's most amazing chameleons (with character, health and beauty as our focus)!!!

My deepest appreciation to all who support us in this goal!
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And along came the rather large "unnamed" corporations in the pet industry, bulldozing their way through communities!!!

With deepest sincerity, I like Matt, thank each and everyone who have supported and will support our small family business.
 
Depending on what state you are in you probably have to actually register your business and not just verbally claim that what you're spending money on is a business expense. H&R for example guarantees your return so if you get audited and can't prove your statement to the IRS, they have to cover your return, so they are on the prudent side, understandably. This becomes specially true if you aren't showing enough income from the business to offset the expenditures.

I AM NOT ASSUMING ANYTHING ABOUT THE OP'S BUSINESS PRACTICES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I'm just playing devils advocate because I personally had to jump through hoops to get my aquarium service business write offs to go through in the state of Florida to prove it wasn't just a hobby I was trying to write off.

The IRS doesn't care whether you like what you're doing or not, but they definitely do care when it looks like someone is trying to write their hobby off as an expense, which I have personally seen a whole lot of people with expensive hobbies doing.
 
We are registered as a buisines in our state! If people whine and complain about the costs of everything involved in getting one chameleon just immagine the cost for many! We are successful in breeding and selling amazing chameleons! And our buisiness is constantly growing! So we do not anticipate any problems with the IRS audit! Thanks to all for all the helpful feedback! The point is that it is a drag and very time consuming to get ready for a massive audit such as this! That is why I initiated this thread! I initiated this thread as a warning and help to others starting up small businesses to stay organized and do everything by the book! That's all!
 
JoeDigiorgio said:
Depending on what state you are in you probably have to actually register your business and not just verbally claim that what you're spending money on is a business expense. H&R for example guarantees your return so if you get audited and can't prove your statement to the IRS, they have to cover your return, so they are on the prudent side, understandably. This becomes specially true if you aren't showing enough income from the business to offset the expenditures.

I AM NOT ASSUMING ANYTHING ABOUT THE OP'S BUSINESS PRACTICES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I'm just playing devils advocate because I personally had to jump through hoops to get my aquarium service business write offs to go through in the state of Florida to prove it wasn't just a hobby I was trying to write off.

The IRS doesn't care whether you like what you're doing or not, but they definitely do care when it looks like someone is trying to write their hobby off as an expense, which I have personally seen a whole lot of people with expensive hobbies doing.
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Thank you @JoeDigiorgio, I found your words helpful! With the startup of any new business (we at first practiced as a hobby but as time past, demand increased, and business knowledge was attained, we took all steps necessary to make it an official business) I suppose one can anticipate their expenses to exceed their profits. Especially, for the first few years (depending on the nature of their business) and especially when they are funding themselves without loans, grants, etc. It is just downright shameful that there are so many people out there that take advantage of the system and make life so difficult on the ones who display integrity and are upfront and honest! According to all I have read, we meet all qualifications for being considered a business! At this point in time we have to have Faith in the system.
 
I have former experience with the powers of burocrasy as powered by a massive powerful country such as the USA! My process for becoming a citizen of the USA was long, dragged out and expensive! From 1994 when I first arrived in the USA till the year 2001 I spent over $50,000 in legal fees and Immigration And Naturalization expenses, just to stay legal in the country! See, I was in the process of becoming a nurse (graduated in 1999) and wanted/needed to do everything legally in order to be able to get a California Nursing license! In the years from 1994 to 2000 California offered amnesty to illegal immigrants twice! All they had to do was show up with $2000 the first time and $3000 the second time and declare themselves and they could get a green card! This only applied to illegal immigrants who slipped through the cracks! Because I stayed legal through it all, this amnesty did not apply to me! Haha what a challenge it was! I have been a citizen for just over 7 years now and I love my country!!! It is my joy and honor to pay my taxes to support the country that I love! Without the love and support of it citizens, how can any country exist!
 
Matt Vanilla Gorilla said:
We are registered as a buisines in our state! If people whine and complain about the costs of everything involved in getting one chameleon just immagine the cost for many! We are successful in breeding and selling amazing chameleons! And our buisiness is constantly growing! So we do not anticipate any problems with the IRS audit! Thanks to all for all the helpful feedback! The point is that it is a drag and very time consuming to get ready for a massive audit such as this! That is why I initiated this thread! I initiated this thread as a warning and help to others starting up small businesses to stay organized and do everything by the book! That's all!
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Excellent advice for a small business owner. I think small business owners often consider themselves too small of a fish as it were to worry about keeping their books nicely.
 
I don't see a problem as long as you were not deducting stuff that does not have to do with the business and have paid the taxes on stuff you have sold.
 
Virgil1972 said:
I don't see a problem as long as you were not deducting stuff that does not have to do with the business and have paid the taxes on stuff you have sold.
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I think the point is the IRS classifying the business as a hobby Matt and Jessica put their life and lots and lots of love into a small business. They dedicate so much time to the chameleon and it's also part of their livelihood .

It's a small family owned business their children have a big involvement . Leave the small people alone and worry about the real corrupt corporations !!. It's really maddening I completely understand how they feel . We have been audited 3 times we are both just small businesses loving what we do trying to support our family's .
 
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