Back with another DIY (Fountain)

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Just stop already, I've been reefing for over 15 years and to apply the nitrogen cycle to this specific thread as if there's any meaningful similarities is just laughable. The OP stated he's going to clean it frequently which means a 100% water change every time including using distilled water. The constant cleaning of the container is NOT going to let the nitrogen cycle happen.
This is an old thread, I apologize for being a little blunt in this thread. But wth, how much do you offer to this forum? You came here just to take words I said out of context and argue about something old? Where did i say the nitrogen cycle would happen within a day? Because I'm reading "at some point". Bacteria can grow that fast, have cats or a dog? Ever see the bowl get slimey after about a day? I've read in most cases it's not harmful, but it shows how fast stuff can pop up and whether or not it will harm chameleons, neither of us know. I even said that he could do this with no problems at all, it's just not recommended imo.

Can't believe I'm even replying to an old thread to someone that just made an account to start arguing lol but whatever. Maybe message me if you have a problem? This is over with. Btw I have kept animals for 20+ years, SW aquariums for a part of that, anyone with money can start a reef tank. That doesn't mean you or I know how a chameleon's body handles sitting water...
 
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gil03

New Member
This is an old thread, I apologize for being a little blunt in this thread. But wth, how much do you offer to this forum? You came here just to take words I said out of context and argue about something old? Where did i say the nitrogen cycle would happen within a day? Because I'm reading "at some point". Bacteria can grow that fast, have cats or a dog? Ever see the bowl get slimey after about a day? I've read in most cases it's not harmful, but it shows how fast stuff can pop up and whether or not it will harm chameleons, neither of us know. I even said that he could do this with no problems at all, it's just not recommended imo.

Can't believe I'm even replying to an old thread to someone that just made an account to start arguing lol but whatever. Maybe message me if you have a problem? This is over with. Btw I have kept animals for 20+ years, SW aquariums for a part of that, anyone with money can start a reef tank. That doesn't mean you or I know how a chameleon's body handles sitting water...
Old threads serve a purpose, just as I was searching for info on some drip contraption to use so will others. I chose to comment on the topic (old or not) for that very purpose. You specifically mentioned ammonia and nitrates in your response to the OP and I merely wanted to chime in on how I didn't think those two stages of the nitrogen cycle would ever occur considering the variables given by the OP.

BTW, people don't always start an account to comment on a forum. I've read a ton of threads on this forum and haven't responded to anything really and having an opposing view on a subject doesn't constitute as starting an account to argue with people.
 

Syreptyon

Chameleon Enthusiast
Old threads serve a purpose, just as I was searching for info on some drip contraption to use so will others. I chose to comment on the topic (old or not) for that very purpose. You specifically mentioned ammonia and nitrates in your response to the OP and I merely wanted to chime in on how I didn't think those two stages of the nitrogen cycle would ever occur considering the variables given by the OP.

BTW, people don't always start an account to comment on a forum. I've read a ton of threads on this forum and haven't responded to anything really and having an opposing view on a subject doesn't constitute as starting an account to argue with people.
The purpose old threads serve: providing information for keepers in need, who are willing to do research themselves

What you used the old thread for: to start an argument with one of the most experienced members on the site from a dead post from 8 months ago. And for what? To showcase your reefing knowledge of the nitrogen cycle? To challenge a position and misinterpret its wording to prove a point? This doesn't serve anyone any good. If you are interested in debating the topic, then start your own thread and have a real discussion.

Case in point: old threads do have a purpose, but you sure aren't using them for it.
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
The purpose old threads serve: providing information for keepers in need, who are willing to do research themselves

What you used the old thread for: to start an argument with one of the most experienced members on the site from a dead post from 8 months ago. And for what? To showcase your reefing knowledge of the nitrogen cycle? To challenge a position and misinterpret its wording to prove a point? This doesn't serve anyone any good. If you are interested in debating the topic, then start your own thread and have a real discussion.

Case in point: old threads do have a purpose, but you sure aren't using them for it.
Well said^
 

gil03

New Member
The purpose old threads serve: providing information for keepers in need, who are willing to do research themselves

What you used the old thread for: to start an argument with one of the most experienced members on the site from a dead post from 8 months ago. And for what? To showcase your reefing knowledge of the nitrogen cycle? To challenge a position and misinterpret its wording to prove a point? This doesn't serve anyone any good. If you are interested in debating the topic, then start your own thread and have a real discussion.

Case in point: old threads do have a purpose, but you sure aren't using them for it.
And by your own point when people look for the information themselves they may or may not come across a thread like this where someone so "sternly" was opposed to using a drip fountain of sorts and threw in some data that may not have been as accurate and someone else chimed in (late or not) with an opposing view based on bacteria/water chemistry.

If re-visiting and commenting on old threads around here is a no no then I'll gladly act accordingly but having one's own opinion especially when merit based shouldn't be taboo. Above all I didn't respond to this thread to start and argument, I offered a differing view...one based on water chemistry/bacteria which like it or not is all reefing is and why I chose to mention reefing in the first place, contrary to belief.
 

Goose502

Chameleon Enthusiast
And by your own point when people look for the information themselves they may or may not come across a thread like this where someone so "sternly" was opposed to using a drip fountain of sorts and threw in some data that may not have been as accurate and someone else chimed in (late or not) with an opposing view based on bacteria/water chemistry.

If re-visiting and commenting on old threads around here is a no no then I'll gladly act accordingly but having one's own opinion especially when merit based shouldn't be taboo. Above all I didn't respond to this thread to start and argument, I offered a differing view...one based on water chemistry/bacteria which like it or not is all reefing is and why I chose to mention reefing in the first place, contrary to belief.
You seem to really know your water chemistry. I don’t doubt the validity of your opinion. As far as standing water, or waterfalls go...do not do it! Chameleons don’t look for standing water in the wild. They will drink from leaves when water from a waterfall or creek or whatever splashed onto them. In the wild, this water, though not in any way sterile, is safer for them to drink than a fake water feature in an enclosure. The danger isn’t necessarily part of the nitrogen cycle (or whatever, I don’t do fish), but the high probability that the cheap filter isn’t doing its job, or that daily dissenfecting isn’t taking place. Feeders can and will walk right into a water feature, drown, and become part of the filter in minutes. Can it safely be done, absolutely. But will that person be there to fully dissinfect the feature and it’s filter media...daily? Doubt it. No reason to make an already difficult pet harder to care for. For the record, I could care less when old threads are resurrected, there are always thing to learn.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Old threads serve a purpose, just as I was searching for info on some drip contraption to use so will others. I chose to comment on the topic (old or not) for that very purpose. You specifically mentioned ammonia and nitrates in your response to the OP and I merely wanted to chime in on how I didn't think those two stages of the nitrogen cycle would ever occur considering the variables given by the OP.

BTW, people don't always start an account to comment on a forum. I've read a ton of threads on this forum and haven't responded to anything really and having an opposing view on a subject doesn't constitute as starting an account to argue with people.
I appreciate that you responded civilly this time around. It seemed with how you worded it that you were baiting an argument, considering you were a new account bumping an old thread.

I'd personally love to have a stream of some sort through a *large enclosure with different methods of filtration. Could be an interesting topic to discuss. Generally speaking, we don't recommend using standing or recycled water though. The risk+maintenance outweigh the benefits.
The danger isn’t necessarily part of the nitrogen cycle (or whatever, I don’t do fish), but the high probability that the cheap filter isn’t doing its job, or that daily dissenfecting isn’t taking place. Feeders can and will walk right into a water feature, drown, and become part of the filter in minutes. Can it safely be done, absolutely. But will that person be there to fully dissinfect the feature and it’s filter media...daily? Doubt it.
This is more what i was trying to get at. Nitrifying bacteria wouldn't really be my worry, but just used that as an example of how bacteria, good or bad builds up in water. In chameleon cages where dirt, shed, poop, feeders, and feeder's poop makes it everywhere. You're bound to get some junk in a cheap waterfall at some point. Cricket poop for example, would be small and easy to miss.

We usually let old threads go unless it's the OP bumping it. Though, it's not a big deal if you do. Might just not get as many replies. In this case it was more of how you approached it at first. Looking back I could have worded my posts in a better way instead of attacking the OP, but sometimes the forums get a little frustrating.
 

gil03

New Member
In my opinion there are a plethora of variables that come into play when talking about the potential of bacteria in a water source, things like: Is the water moving or standing, how fast is it moving, filtered or not, ambient temp of room, light source hitting container, what type of light source "etc." All these things have an effect on the rate/type of bacteria growth and consequently varying the frequency of cleaning. I mean you won't even have ammonia in the water unless something is dead in the water source and has been given time to start decomposing, this can be mitigated easily by taking a peek daily into the container.

I'm sure the OP has no intent on letting his beautiful cham drink from a rotting petri dish, which is evident by his claimed cleaning regimen. If I'm not mistaken he even educated himself enough to know that the water should have movement to help with oxygenation and then activated carbon to help with filtration on top of the cleaning.

My apologies if I offended anyone, at the end of the day if we stop talking about what we're doing then the innovation in the hobby suffers.
 

gil03

New Member
BTW, if there's one thing i'd like to see catch up to today's standards it's the lighting in this hobby! I see no reason why the market shouldn't be flooded with full spectrum LED's with independent controllable channels. Right now it seems we're all stuck using primitive fixtures with inefficient light sources (T5). I did happen to purchase an LED/T5 combo fixture but I'm sure the led's are of the lowest quality/old diodes and probably serve no real purpose other than lumination.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
@gil03 it's all good, I enjoy talking about new ideas. Even my enclosures aren't the typical you see(though the bioactive influence has definitely caught on more).

I think my initial frustration with the thread(I barely remember this lol) was just that a lot of the claims were incorrect. There's a good chance nothing bad would happen too if somebody actually kept up with cleaning, but I think why people shut the idea down is because it's not usually a natural way of drinking and the risks+upkeep make it not worth it. With that said, some species like Parson's are apparently known to hang out near streams according to some people that have visited Madagascar. One day if I ever had the space/$ I'd love to have a small room sized enclosure with a water feature that included mechanical and biological filtration.
 

nick barta

Chameleon Enthusiast
Site Sponsor
Thanks for the concern but I know how to care for my pet and how to keep his cage and things clean, been doing it successfully for over a year now and he loves every bit of what I do for him and even the breeder complimented my setup and dedication to raising my little guy with extra attention to husbandry details. Nice try though.
I tend to stay out of these conversations, but this quote from the OP is too ridiculous to pass on.

"He loves everything I do."
He doesn't "like" you, or "love" you, or like or love anything you do for him. He doesn't have the ability to do anything from those motives, he is controlled entirely by instincts to eat, hydrate, keep temperature control, avoidance of perceived dangers, to mate, and to fight for mating rights.

"successfully over a year now"
One year of keeping a chameleon alive does not qualify a keeper as knowing what they are doing,

"nice try though"
Arrogant attitude, not a good way to react to people trying to help you.


One of the problems we have now is that inexperienced hobbyists have a platform to claim anything as good practice, and get the same audience viewing as James, OldChamKeeper, Brady, Decadancin, Brad, Bob, Jan, and many others. I have nothing against the OP, this is a general criticism of inexperienced keepers communicating on social media platforms their own perceived "truth" in defiance of 2-1/2 decades of experience of the keepers who have learned the hobby through many sicknesses and deaths of their chameleons.

CHEERS!

Nick
 

gil03

New Member
I tend to stay out of these conversations, but this quote from the OP is too ridiculous to pass on.

"He loves everything I do."
He doesn't "like" you, or "love" you, or like or love anything you do for him. He doesn't have the ability to do anything from those motives, he is controlled entirely by instincts to eat, hydrate, keep temperature control, avoidance of perceived dangers, to mate, and to fight for mating rights.

"successfully over a year now"
One year of keeping a chameleon alive does not qualify a keeper as knowing what they are doing,

"nice try though"
Arrogant attitude, not a good way to react to people trying to help you.


One of the problems we have now is that inexperienced hobbyists have a platform to claim anything as good practice, and get the same audience viewing as James, OldChamKeeper, Brady, Decadancin, Brad, Bob, Jan, and many others. I have nothing against the OP, this is a general criticism of inexperienced keepers communicating on social media platforms their own perceived "truth" in defiance of 2-1/2 decades of experience of the keepers who have learned the hobby through many sicknesses and deaths of their chameleons.

CHEERS!

Nick
I don't think the OP meant love in the literal sense, I tend to think of it more like if I said my cham loves horned worms...I don't mean he literally understands the concept of love nor is he capable of that kind of thought according to the limited research available but one can certainly describe it's liking to someone or something as such.

I think if you have a beautiful healthy cham that you've cared for in a years time then you definitely have a degree of knowledge. However, if your point was to say that it doesn't constitute as expert class then that I can agree with.

If there's one thing I've learned in the several hobbies that i've grown to appreciate it's that there's no perfect or "Right" way to do everything, even the most experienced hobbyists I think can admit that. There's general guidelines for the most part based on the very limited experience and limited knowledge on the subject but I think even the most seasoned keeper could admit there's so much more we don't know imo.
 
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