Baby T.j. xantholophus gender/ caging

JacksoniiJones

New Member
Hello, long time reader of this forum, first time post! I have kept a few species of chameleon over the last decade or so, and am a life long fanatic of all reptiles. I would have to say jacksonii have always been my favorite.
As my young family grew, my menagerie of reptiles shrank. I finally convinced my wife that we needed some chameleons around the house, and we settled on a pair of Jacksons.
I’m also an avid listener of the Chameleon Breeder podcast, and was intrigued by the Kenyan xanth movement to get wild blood, and encourage healthy captive generations. So I was keen on starting a small breeding project with Kenyan animals.
About two months ago, I received a trio of baby xanths from an individual that claimed to have had several recent Kenyan imported females birth litters. I expressed my interest in obtaining animals from wild blood lines, but was hesitant to get jacksonii that were under four or six months of age. Though the pictures were of newborn babies, he assured me that they were now almost three months old and really vigorous....(I know, my fault for not insisting on more recent pictures...)
While the animals shipped in apparent good health, I was highly doubtful that they were much more than a month old, and indeed one of them was half the size of the other two and likely a fresh newborn. (It, unfortunately, did not acclimate well and died a few days later).
The other two, I assume were litter mates, are doing really well and have doubled in size. He did refund my money for the runt (he was not generous with his price on such young animals). While I am aggravated that the individual that he shipped was likely the “male” from a separate litter (I would not have put any money on it being a male at newborn size) I am relieved that the sibling pair are likely both females (at least I think so). I wanted to post a few pictures of them and get everyone’s opinion to verify.
Also, as they are beginning to get some size(~3” svl) and age (his claim would be nearly five months but I suspect more like three) to them, I am preparing to move them into separate enclosures. I enjoy diy projects and want to build them something with solid walls on three sides (like the dragon strand breeders). They currently share a homemade 18x18x36 screen cage, but they will likely have to spend much of the year indoors with the heat or a/c running and drying out the air. Does anyone have any tips/ ideas on building with pvc panels or corrugated plastic? I liked Chris Anderson’s diy chameleon cage build using 2x4s and pvc/ plastic panels. The only thing I didn’t like is that some of the wood frame is on the inside of the cage. Has anyone had luck using smaller gage lumber and keeping all the framing on the outside?
And finally (last question I promise); does anyone use the zoo med T5H0/ LED combo fixtures? I was thinking of splurging and getting a four foot fixture to span over two 24x24” side by side. My main concern being the lights penetrating power, (not so much the UVB but how bright are the LEDs?) as I will likely build these cages at least four feet tall.
Okay, enough rambling, here’s the pictures of my babies. Thanks in advance for everyone’s input!!!
1B4646BD-F779-40CE-85CE-D69CE3E83E63.jpeg
0BF125DE-1FE7-4484-8613-18209A34800D.jpeg
20081972-C73D-4455-81D5-5F48037E0861.jpeg
4D13ABA9-973D-4041-9D43-0DC53FD7A0C6.jpeg
79D41DD2-6B39-4021-A9CE-4C0C2437AC15.jpeg
 

JacksJill

Chameleon Enthusiast
I would like to see pictures of their faces in profile before I would even venture a guess.

I'm a big fan of the Kenyan Xanth project but I'm surprised that one of their members is selling them younger than 4 months of age. It is part of their group rules that they be sold after 4 mos. preferably closer to 6 mos. Did you buy thru the group FB page of registered breeders?
I would advise anyone buying jacksonii to wait until they are 4 mos. before buying them as they can be fragile as young juveniles. Runts do occur in litters so it's possible that it was a littermate.
 
Last edited:

JacksoniiJones

New Member
No, I doubt he is part of the Kenyan xanth project. I found his ad on kingsnake. I mentioned it but he didn’t really say much about it other than “that’s cool”. I imagine he just got a few imports and sold off the babies. He seemed more geared toward panther chams. The reason I believe that the “runt” was significantly younger was because I emphasized that I was looking for unrelated animals for future breeding and he said he would be sure not to ship same sex from same litter as he had several females drop around the same time/ raised clutches separately.
 

JacksoniiJones

New Member
This is the best I can do for a profile picture of their faces. Frightened baby chams don’t make the most cooperative models. Figured having their vents in profile like in the first pictures might be helpful.
A8F37C91-7F0A-46E1-A5D1-94C6555C0D02.jpeg
E84E4421-FA90-4C9D-8BA3-6A8812169CE4.jpeg
 

JacksJill

Chameleon Enthusiast
I know it's hard to get them to hold still. Your pics aren't perfect profiles but maybe you can tell in person. The shape below the rostral horn is your best clue. Females have a gentle curve and males have a sharp angel to the indent. A8F37C91-7F0A-46E1-A5D1-94C6555C0D02.jpegE84E4421-FA90-4C9D-8BA3-6A8812169CE4.jpeg
Since #1 is looking away i can't be sure and wouldn't bet the farm on my drawing.
 

JacksoniiJones

New Member
I know it's hard to get them to hold still. Your pics aren't perfect profiles but maybe you can tell in person. The shape below the rostral horn is your best clue. Females have a gentle curve and males have a sharp angel to the indent. View attachment 226795View attachment 226796
Since #1 is looking away i can't be sure and wouldn't bet the farm on my drawing.
Haha! That’s actually really helpful. I have never come across that little nugget but makes sense. Thanks so much!
To further complicate things, the one that you drew a “female” profile on arrived with a black spot where her rostral horn or bud should have been. I am guessing that she/ he did this from rubbing the screen or some similar injury being communally raised. The rostrum is now healed/ smooth with a light center, kind of the color of a finger nail.
Looking closely in person, I would have to agree with your assessment: #2 baby has a deeper “valley” between the base of the rostral base and upper lip/ possibly male.
So in your experience, do young males tend to develop horns at differing rates? I have seen a few pictures of young males said to be three or four months old that have very defined horns developed with at least a heavy base to them if not a few annulations/ rings to them already. Thanks again for your insight!
 

JacksJill

Chameleon Enthusiast
I know there is a difference in the robustness of the males horns between the Jackson's from Kenya and the ones that come out of Hawaii. There is a smaller variation between clutch mates with the more dominant being earlier to develop.
 

Highway61

Avid Member
So in your experience, do young males tend to develop horns at differing rates? I have seen a few pictures of young males said to be three or four months old that have very defined horns developed with at least a heavy base to them if not a few annulations/ rings to them already. Thanks again for your insight!
I'm not experienced but I received this little guy two weeks ago his horns are unmistakable at 3 1/2 months.

1553548970034.png
 

JacksoniiJones

New Member
How much u want them for?
Im kind of itching now...
Hey, sorry for the confusion: I did kinda make a long drawn out post- I’m not actually selling them. I was getting opinions on this pairs sex.
Like jacksJill was saying; there’s a Facebook community of people looking to establish captive bred Xantholophus using healthy bloodlines from Kenyan imports. Most of what you find in pet stores and expos are typically wild caught from a feral population in Hawaii that got established almost fifty years ago. These guys are usually between $50 and 100 but there’s evidence that all those decades of inbreeding have led to some issues that lead to sort of stunted animals that just aren’t as healthy as their Kenyan cousins.
I’m not very savvy with social media but if you search Facebook for the Kenyan Xanth Project you may get in touch with people who have first generation or maybe even second generation babies coming available soon. The price tag will be higher, I would gladly pay 2-3 times that of Hawaii imports, as long as they are 4-6 months old and healthy.
Good luck if ya decide to get a baby. They are really awesome chameleons and I hope more people start working with them and getting them established in captive breeding like we have with panther chams.
 

alphakenc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey, sorry for the confusion: I did kinda make a long drawn out post- I’m not actually selling them. I was getting opinions on this pairs sex.
Like jacksJill was saying; there’s a Facebook community of people looking to establish captive bred Xantholophus using healthy bloodlines from Kenyan imports. Most of what you find in pet stores and expos are typically wild caught from a feral population in Hawaii that got established almost fifty years ago. These guys are usually between $50 and 100 but there’s evidence that all those decades of inbreeding have led to some issues that lead to sort of stunted animals that just aren’t as healthy as their Kenyan cousins.
I’m not very savvy with social media but if you search Facebook for the Kenyan Xanth Project you may get in touch with people who have first generation or maybe even second generation babies coming available soon. The price tag will be higher, I would gladly pay 2-3 times that of Hawaii imports, as long as they are 4-6 months old and healthy.
Good luck if ya decide to get a baby. They are really awesome chameleons and I hope more people start working with them and getting them established in captive breeding like we have with panther chams.
I appreciate the offer as far as panther chameleons I used to have 264 of them ...thank u through.I thought JacksJill post those babie lol.
 

JacksoniiJones

New Member
I'm not experienced but I received this little guy two weeks ago his horns are unmistakable at 3 1/2 months.

View attachment 226811
Nice! Yeah that’s what I’m talking about. Mine are maybe just a little smaller but no evidence of horns like that! Looks awesome and I would love to know who you got him from if he’s a Kenyan baby. I may still be in the market for a stud for these two if they both turn out female.
 

Highway61

Avid Member
Nice! Yeah that’s what I’m talking about. Mine are maybe just a little smaller but no evidence of horns like that! Looks awesome and I would love to know who you got him from if he’s a Kenyan baby. I may still be in the market for a stud for these two if they both turn out female.
I spent the extra coin to get a captive bred Jacksons from cbreptiles. After I placed the order I asked for confirmation that he is indeed CB and asked for any linage/DOB info. All I got was a "yes" and a DOB (10/31/18) on the container lid he was shipped in. So is he really captive bred? Probably not :rolleyes: He is a hoot though and I've really gotten attached to him!
 
Top Bottom