Baby Snakes as a feeder?

[sandrachameleon]

So I was doing some gardening today, and unintentionally unearthed a small nest of tiny snakes, presumbably preparing to hybernate. I carefully moved them to a quiet sheltered corner amongst some leaves and bark and old sod near my compost bins. Afterwards, I wondered if I had just given up a feeder source. These were very small garder smakes, which are not poisonous or large even when adult. Most were no thicker than superworms, and perhaps 3 inches long. Although it was a mild day (12c) the snakes were fairly slow. I could easily have kept them chilled and offered them up as feeders, had it occured to me in time. I'll probably have the chance again in future, since there is a wilderness area at the back of my garden and plenty of snakes in the summer - undoubtedly there are a few snake nursaries nearby. I like snakes, and the babies are adorable, but still... maybe baby snakes are a good meal for chameleons? I like to offer my chameleons as much variety as possible, which is more difficult Fall and Winter.

thoughts anyone?

 

[panthercham]

My only real thought on it is that snakes are not vegetarians so what they eat is potential gutload.(small insects, worms etc)...I am not sure if I would like that as potential gut load for my chams.

On the other side I am sure chams do eat small snakes in the wild

 

[sandrachameleon]

My only real thought on it is that snakes are not vegetarians so what they eat is potential gutload.(small insects, worms etc)...I am not sure if I would like that as potential gut load for my chams.

On the other side I am sure chams do eat small snakes in the wild

thanks for the reply!

Wouldnt insects, worms, snails etc in the snake be essentially Good for a chameleon? I suppose I could keep little snakes in an aquarium, gutload with worms from my vermiculture composter, mealworms, crickets, snails, etc. That way Id know what the snake ate recently, and hence what is going into the chameleon. On the other hand... maybe I have enough projects to keep me busy without starting a snake colony! LOL

 

[Sean1978]

Parasites?

 

[Sang]

keep in mind the transfer rate.

SO you got these snakes which just ate a bunch of bugs, these bugs just ate a ton of pesticide covered plant material.

for every consumption rate, concentration levels multiply in a factor of 10. even though the amount doesn't increase, concentation does.

i would not use outside sources as a food source. stick to prebred foods and things that you know what they have consumed.

 

[Sang]

that would be amazing, considering the shell would be extremly hard to pass as it is far denser then most internal bones.

sure its a baby turtle. but they still got a tough shell especially considering its a snapping turtle.

 

[kenya]

Not only will you be passing on any ingested chemicals and parasites the snakes have, but most native species of animals are protected by law. A lot of reptiles, especially some variety of garter snakes, are endangered because people pick them up and try to keep them as pets. They are also threatened by deforestation and pollutants in the environment. I also imagine they would be quite a large meal and too high in vitamin A.

I do not suggest feeding the little snakes off. Just leave them where they are and enjoy their presence- you are lucky to have them there

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thanks for your input everyone.

Pesticides are not a significant issue where I live, certainly I dont use any, nor do my neighbours and of course the parkland and river behind is quite clean.

I dont think the garTer snake is a protected species here. Its yellow-listed by the province of B.C. (the species is secure and not at risk of extinction), and considered not at risk by the federal Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada (COSEWIC). One isnt allowed to keep any wild animal as a pet, but I think you're permitted to eat these snakes without a license or permit.

The snake bellies may very well be empty, given that they had started their hybernation (or is it more accurate to say bermation?) I already risk parasites given that I feed wild caught moths and grasshoppers. So far it ten years we've been quite lucky - no parasites, though we check annually to be sure. I think the benefits of variety outweight the risk of parasites.

Still, I'm thinking its probably just as well I decided to let the little snakes be. They were very cute!

I didnt take a picture of the babies, but here is a pic of an adult who I saved from the lawn mower this summer.

 

[Sang]

you may not use pesticides , but many chemicals i garuntee were used heavly in the past , like DDT. you have a transfer rate on a trophic level anytime one animal eats another. the whole principal behind gut loading, + when those snakes eat, who knows what they just ate before *usually fish* water is never really 100% clean , past pesticides don't break down in water very well.

 

[sandrachameleon]

Thanks for your concern. DDT was not used in my area. I dont doubt its in the general earth environment, humans have definately trashed the planet overall. But DDT is not a major concern in my area. Anything local insects have is likely to be everywhere, in everything. BTW Gater snakes dont eat fish, they eat small slugs and snails and worms.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I think small vertebrates are probably a very natural source of prey for chameleons.
The only thing I thought of is that nasty, milky pee garter snakes emit as a defense.
Probably wouldn't taste all that great.

-Brad

 

[Chameleon Company]

Sandra,

I was born a snaker, and will die one, just with many thousands of chameleons in between. With that as my excuse, its "garter", not "garder" snakes, even in Canada

Can I point to any one thing, such as a pesticide concern or other "I don't know what even if I think real hard" specific prohibition to tell you that you did not pass on a good food opportunity ? Specific .. No. But heck yeah I can say don't do it !!


Why ? Which of us has any real knowledge of the specific pros and cons of feeder snakes for chameleons ? None of us would be the answer, even if we drank a lot of beer. It is also an exceedingly unlikely occurance in the wild that a chameleon would ever have such a feeder opportunity, and that is the best reason to not even think it. I do not want to sound scoldful, but I am a proponent that the best approach in caring for chameleons is "what would Mother Nature do"? Where the answer is something I cannot quite emulate, it is time to tread carefully, and seek out the experience of others. What is to be avoided are all things that are clearly unnecessary deviations from that guiding question. I am not saying that your chameleon might not find nutritional benefit. but at what risk ? What savings ? In the end, the answer to the "Why" question will never be good enough for me. I would encourage others to stay equally conservative in teir husbandry approaches.

Garter. Thamnophis. Happy herping.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Let me offer one other consideration

Yes, we all know that chameleons feed on small vertebrates, especially other lizards. We also know that regardless of what chameleons eat, when they shoot prey and pull it into their mouth for that first "crunch", they close their eyes momentarily timed with the pulling of the prey into their mouths. I have always seen it as a smart protective mechanism lest the prey be able to turn and bite back, even if only once before its head gets crushed on the second chomp. I do not see snakes, even small ones, as fitting the profile of being a safe target under what I presume to be natural processes.

Good luck with all.

 

[sandrachameleon]

its "garter", not "garder" snakes, even in Canada

Yes I knew that. I just didnt think it necessary to correct the typo. So glad you thought to do so for me.

have a nice day

 

[ciafardo 4]

I was born a snaker, and will die one, just with many thousands of chameleons in between. With that as my excuse, its "garter", not "garder" snakes, even in Canada

Can I point to any one thing, such as a pesticide concern or other "I don't know what even if I think real hard" specific prohibition to tell you that you did not pass on a good food opportunity ? Specific .. No. But heck yeah I can say don't do it !!


Why ? Which of us has any real knowledge of the specific pros and cons of feeder snakes for chameleons ? None of us would be the answer, even if we drank a lot of beer. It is also an exceedingly unlikely occurance in the wild that a chameleon would ever have such a feeder opportunity, and that is the best reason to not even think it. I do not want to sound scoldful, but I am a proponent that the best approach in caring for chameleons is "what would Mother Nature do"? Where the answer is something I cannot quite emulate, it is time to tread carefully, and seek out the experience of others. What is to be avoided are all things that are clearly unnecessary deviations from that guiding question. I am not saying that your chameleon might not find nutritional benefit. but at what risk ? What savings ? In the end, the answer to the "Why" question will never be good enough for me. I would encourage others to stay equally conservative in teir husbandry approaches.

Garter. Thamnophis. Happy herping.

i wanted to correct that dam you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahaha