baby panther chameleon cage setup

[vindicatedornot]

My enclosure is 24"L x 12"W x 24"H. I have a ReptiSun 5.0 Bulb sitting on top and a ReptiSun Basking Spot Lamp on the right side, with many vines at different heights so my new buddy can choose his temp.The basking branch temp is about 93 degrees farenheit (please forgive my spelling :] ) with an overall temp between 90-80. I have a ficus on the left side, with the dripper above it (currently not setup.) I have a misting bottle but I also have an automatic Habba Mist Misting Machine being shipped at the moment. My little guy will be here tuesday. Is there anything else I need for him to be ok? This is my first chameleon (he's a blue barred ambilobe panther 3.5 months old) and I just want to make sure everything will be alright.

Here's a photo of the cage as of 5 minutes ago. lol.

I have all the appropriate suppliments, but I was wondering what's best to gut load crickets for a baby panther like mine?

 

[toddmkeller]

Ok a couple things...
93F is WAAAY too hot for really anything but an adult panther and that is still cooking... I keep my juveniles at a basking temp around 80-85 deg. I use 40 watt incandescent bulbs from walmart. Also don't open your habbamist and return it... It really isn't worth your time/money. I use Mist King (Marty is great with customer services, quick and efficient) for my mist system and I really like it. Make sure that no water builds up in the bottom pan because little babies can drown in any bit of standing water (so can feeders and then that becomes a big bacterial mess) Also, if that is green carpet in the bottom of the cage please remove it! You want a cage bottom that will wick up any moisture because that can become a bacteria farm.

What is your supplement schedule btw? I see you have what looks to be, Herptivite, Rep Cal with D3 and Minerall-O which is good!

Everything else looks good

Anymore questions feel free to ask!

See Ya

Todd

 

[vindicatedornot]

oh my, everything i read told me to set it that high >_< i have it at 85-87F now. Is that much better? Or still burning up?

also, ty very much for the help
p.s. again.. what are the best gut loads for crickets while the chameleon is that young

 

[vindicatedornot]

sorry i didnt do this in the post before, i hit enter and somehow it sent lol

"I keep my juveniles at a basking temp around 80-85 deg."

ok, got this.

"Make sure that no water builds up in the bottom pan because little babies can drown in any bit of standing water"

there's no water there only right underneath the plant.

"Also, if that is green carpet in the bottom of the cage please remove it! You want a cage bottom that will wick up any moisture because that can become a bacteria farm."

No, thats a green pvc sheet. I plan on putting paper towels once it gets here.

"What is your supplement schedule btw? I see you have what looks to be, Herptivite, Rep Cal with D3 and Minerall-O which is good!"

here is a schediule i've compromised and plan to reduce once he's older

Mondays Thursdays - Herptivite
Tuesdays Fridays - Repcal with D3
Wednesdays Saturdays - Miner-All 0
Sundays None

 

[toddmkeller]

Here is a link to a classified ad: https://www.chameleonforums.com/gutload-sale-19816/ thats the dry gutload I use.

I recommend using a dry gutload along with a wet one. For your wet gutload its a good idea and your chams will appreciate you more if you keep it varied. I use Carrots, Kale, Mustard greens, romaine lettuce, endive, apples, sweet potatos, both winter and summer squash, oranges, limes, kiwi, the list goes on and on and on.... greens are a really good thing to keep around always and I like to add in something different every couple days.
What do you think crickets taste like??? Most likely they taste like what they just had for lunch... So give your cham some variety...

See Ya

Todd

 

[vindicatedornot]

Ok thank you very much.

I dont think i have time to purchase that and feed my cham in time. Is Flukers Hi Cal cricket diet suitable until I can purchase some of the gut load you suggested? Along with fresh greens of course.

 

[toddmkeller]

You can use up your flukers cricket diet. It won't hurt your cham... but use greens and fresh veg in with it... Also your supp schedule probably needs some tweaking

here is yours:
Mondays Thursdays - Herptivite
Tuesdays Fridays - Repcal with D3
Wednesdays Saturdays - Miner-All 0
Sundays None

this is what I would do:
Herptivite once a week
Repcal with d3 once a week
minerall 0 twice a week

this will change as he gets older but it is a good place to start. Also I would invest in a preformed vit A supplement before he turns 6 months old. If you have any questions reguarding vit A please send me a PM

see ya

Todd

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Todd,

Gonna have to disagree. In a well ventilated cage (not an aquarium), a basking temp, which means right at the basking spot, in the mid 90's is not only fine, but is also what you would find on a summer day where these critters come from. The ambient air temp near that spot would be, and should be, in the upper 80's. With the set-up shown, temperature gradients should fall into the low 80's over in the plant area no problem, if not the 70's.

I believe my website outlines basking parameters, but in any event, to set a true basking temperature we recommend taping a normal mercury-bulb stem thermometer to the basking spot, face-up right at the heat source. Let it sit for 10-15 minutes, then raise or lower the heat source, or change its wattage, to achieve the desired temperature. It is accurate, and establishes the high-end gradient for the enclosure.

When you recommend 80-85 for basking for any chameleon, you are now limiting the high-end of the temperature gradient to 80-85. This may mimic the Madagascar winter more closely, but that is not when baby panthers hatch in Madagascar, nor when juveniles do most of their growing. Panther chameleons regularly sun themselves so that their skin surface temperature reaches 95-102 degrees (not their internal temp, but the reading you would get using an IR temp gun on the basking side). While I would recommend much more caution were this a 10 gal tank set up for juveniles, where temperatures gradients are far more difficult to manage, I think his first set of temperature parameters was right-on.

You say "to-ma-to", I say "to-mah-to"

 

[Chameleon Company]

Also

We feel that Reptivite is a far better product than Herptivite, as it contains pre-formed Vitamin A, and for all intents in purposes, the "Vitamin A" in Herptevite, as beta-carotene, is near useless to you animals. Reptivite also contains adequate calcium, and can be an "all-in-one" supplement 1-2 times per week. Enjoy !

 

[vindicatedornot]

Hmm, well I am at ends here. As a baby do you think that basking temp is more appropriate? Because i've heard more and more that about 90-95 was perfect for adults and about 88-93 to be good for babies. I am getting too different sides of the spectrum here.

But still i appreciate all the help I can get. Thank you very much, please feel free to tell me more!

 

[toddmkeller]

Thank You^^^^

Jim,

I by no means have the experience with chameleons that you do, however I always use caution with the smaller animals because I know if not well hydrated they can cook themselves pretty quickly. (also inaccurately read basking temps) But I will definitely note what you said.
My chameleons get a simulated winter with shorter (natural) light cycles, less food and lower basking temps to try to replicate the natural cycle, so it makes good sense to replicate their summer basking temps when the babies are born/growing...

Thanks for the info Jim

Todd

 

[Chameleon Company]

Vindicated

The main thing you are trying to establish are the limits of your temperature gradients, more specifically, the high-end, as good ventilation will make it very easy to manage the rest. We usually recommend the higher end temps, as mentioned above, because we gave chameleons the options to make choices years ago, measured the choices made, and then tried to mimic those opportunities. There is no doubt what Mother Nature makes available. In captivity, your chameleon now relies on you to provide same.

While forums can be helpful, there is plenty of info on all of this available in many websites, which would then give you more of a consensus. While we here at The Chameleon Company bring a considerable amount of experience to the table, I would be loathe to recommend that anyone change their husbandry based on one opinion in a forum, mine ar anyone else's.

Also, you described getting a 3.5 month old Ambilobe. I don't know that I would call that a "baby", as in many quarters, it would be 1/3-1/2 grown at that age. While it is a somewhat different discussion, different levels of care and detail are required for a 3g animal vs. a 20g animal, as the smaller will succumb far more quickly to a temperature problem or malfunction.

Good luck with all !

 

[vindicatedornot]

well thank you both SO much for all your help. Everything both of you has made a lot of sense, and mind you this is not the first place I went for advice. I've been speaking to many breeders, reading tons upon tons of websites, and speaking to the actual company I purchased him from to see what they already have him acclimated to, and what their stock is comfortable with. I just like to hear a broad idea of opinions before I make my own.

I'm going to let the basking temp go ahead and be 93 degrees. My juvenile (my bad in saying baby, i was speaking in reference as he is MY new baby ) With an overal temperature of 80-90 ish. Lower at night of course. Once he has made it through a whole year I will start trying to mimic his natural habitat seasons and temperature changes. While he's a youngin, I'm just going to focus on raising him to adulthood.

Thank you so much for the help, and please don't stop the feedback!

Andrea

 

[dodolah]

on top of what Jim and Todd told you, I would add more foliage in the cage.
perhaps one more ficus that size should suffice.
Seems like you are getting your chams from kammerflage?
The equipment are very identical to their starter kit (xcept for the habba mist.)
lol, that stuff is baddd...

Save your money and buy a real misting system such as mistking.com, herpmist.com, and promist.com

 

[ciafardo 4]

on top of what jim and todd told you, i would add more foliage in the cage.
Perhaps one more ficus that size should suffice.
Seems like you are getting your chams from kammerflage?
The equipment are very identical to their starter kit (xcept for the habba mist.)
lol, that stuff is baddd...

Save your money and buy a real misting system such as mistking.com, herpmist.com, and promist.com

dodolah i dont want to be a wet blanket but panthers are just fine with a little less vegitation than other species

 

[desultadox]

What's that thing on the right side of the cage?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Heck !

dodolah i dont want to be a wet blanket but panthers are just fine with a little less vegitation than other species

Been raising thousands for almost a decade, and I never knew that ! Matter-o-fact, I still don't know that !

Hmmmmmm

 

[dodolah]

What's that thing on the right side of the cage?

oohhh! good catch!
Is that a waterfall system or just some kind of accessories for your cham to perch on?
also, i see that you put the cage on the floor.
I would raise the cage up. Perhaps, put it on a table or something. The higher the cage, the more your chameleon will feel safe.

 

[desultadox]

Yeah it looks like one of those waterfall things... but I wanna give the benefit of the doubt ;p

 

[ciafardo 4]

Been raising thousands for almost a decade, and I never knew that ! Matter-o-fact, I still don't know that !

Hmmmmmm

well you do now jim you learn somthing new every day